Author Topic: The King of Fighters XIII General Discussion Thread  (Read 545282 times)

Aenthin

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Re: The King of Fighters XIII General Discussion Thread
« Reply #1905 on: April 29, 2011, 06:56:43 AM »
Shen > Iori but Ash > Shen, seriously Ash is becoming a problem. 

In what way?

Tbh, I can't really compare Ash with Yagami and Shen cause he has a different gameplay overall. It's just that the latter two are so similar in a way.

Kane317

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Re: The King of Fighters XIII General Discussion Thread
« Reply #1906 on: April 29, 2011, 07:00:16 AM »
Shen > Iori but Ash > Shen, seriously Ash is becoming a problem.  

In what way?

Tbh, I can't really compare Ash with Yagami and Shen cause he has a different gameplay overall. It's just that the latter two are so similar in a way.

I agree Ash is strong when he has 2 stocks, but I don't think he's quite at Iori and Shen's level of threat.

If you ask me, Liz and Kula are the problem hahhah j/k =)

Nagare_Ryouma

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Re: The King of Fighters XIII General Discussion Thread
« Reply #1907 on: April 29, 2011, 07:07:40 AM »
Shen > Iori but Ash > Shen, seriously Ash is becoming a problem.  

In what way?

Tbh, I can't really compare Ash with Yagami and Shen cause he has a different gameplay overall. It's just that the latter two are so similar in a way.

I agree Ash is strong when he has 2 stocks, but I don't think he's quite at Iori and Shen's level of threat.

If you ask me, Liz and Kula are the problem hahhah j/k =)

Yeah, I've said it many times, but those two bitches really get on my nerves.
I like juggles, but not those type of juggles.

Ash

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Re: The King of Fighters XIII General Discussion Thread
« Reply #1908 on: April 29, 2011, 09:34:34 AM »
I agree that by playing both characters you know their weakness but without playing against an Iori the you don't realize how good some of his stuff are (you'll just have a rough idea). For example, after a bunch of you picked up Chin, I realized how blocking a d.B from Chin then trying to block his overhead feels like you're stuck in that crouching position.  I wouldn't have known until I played against Chins, before that I just thought ppl kept getting hit lol.  I can't remember who was with me but they instantly agreed with me and they were the one using Chin on me.

One more thing about the meter thing, it's not safe to stand near (of course nobody should stand next to a 1 frame command thrower) a waking Iori or Shen when they have 2 meters.  However it's relatively safe to stand next to a Shen when they only have 1 meter, just stand outside his CABC range--it's dangerous, but you can jump Shen's Ex qcfx2+AC DM and most ppl won't risk doing the Ex DM with someone standing at that range.  Iori however, can cover that spot that with his Ex DP and his Ex qcb+AC (I should know, I get hit by all the time).  Furthermore, and correct me if I'm wrong, if Iori connects with his qcb+AC or dp+AC, can't he follow up with a few extra hits?

Chris plays Iori, and I played him a bunch back at AI. Although he doesn't know the non-HD juggles, I still know what his strengths are. I can pretty much predict when he's going to do qcb+AC and EX command grab. From playing against him it seems like Iori's speed and j.C and j.B are the best things he has going for him. He also tried using his overhead but after getting punished or poked out of it too many times, he completely stopped using it as well. He also once in a while used non-EX command throw but now rarely uses it due to the same issue.

As for Iori's EX's his dp is completely punishable and his EX DM is also punishable but has a shorter window. After his EX dp, you can't juggle after, only qcb+AC you can juggle after with only a DM or dp+A midscreen. As with both Shen's level2's, it's the same with Iori, if you know it's coming there are ways around it. If a qcb+AC is coming from Iori, roll forward or vertical jump to punish. EX dp+AC can be hopped over just like Shen's qcf+AC as well.

A good analogy of what I think Iori's normals are like is Dan from SF. Sure Iori has overhead (worst one in the game), dp, dashing special, but they're really not that great without using an EX version. The difference here is that his normals and speed are good.

For Iori the only special attack worth using non-EX is his qcb+K or nearly pre-emptive dp+A. Shen would be able to use command grab, qcf+P (cancel for meter as well), pre-emptive qcf+K for anti-air, and qcb+A against fireballs. So for non-EX attacks Shen comes on top.

With EX attacks however, Iori does have better options, but since they consume meter, it can only be done limited amount of times, even less often if you follow up with supers.

With that Shen definitely is better as a first character. As for 2nd or 3rd character it'll depend on meter management for Iori.

You know there are plenty of characters that have good defensive options with and without meter in higher, same, and lower tier. What we're doing here is comparing options and tool set of special attacks now. I mean Robert and Athena aren't exactly top tier and ranked lower than both Shen and Iori, but they has pretty much everything.

I'm starting to this this discussion on which of the 2 are better is insignificant seeing on how we agree they are very close. It just depends on who is playing those characters and who they're playing against.


Shen > Iori but Ash > Shen, seriously Ash is becoming a problem.  

I don't think Ash is the problem, it's that we're having to play against John's zoning. I mean at one point you said my Ash was free hahah. It's like me saying Elizabeth is becoming a problem.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2011, 09:40:27 AM by Ash »

Mr.KOF

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Re: The King of Fighters XIII General Discussion Thread
« Reply #1909 on: April 29, 2011, 11:11:48 AM »
Anyways, to shift the topic a little and I've been wanting to post this for some time:

I wanted to ask what ppl's opinion of Shen is now.  He's one of the few characters that I feel that since the beginning of XIII actually got better with time as ppl started to learn him more (Vice is another one).  A couple months ago CMD.Duc and I were discussing and I still felt that Shen was slightly behind Iori, but not by much.

After months of using him, I can honestly admit (!) that he's actually better than I thought he was and he's as good as Iori.  They all have their different strong points and weaknesses but I would put Iori around Shen's level.  What do you guys think?

Iori is under Shen in my book. The only thing Iori has style with is his cross kick game....other then that he is pretty boring to look at. Nice avatar Kane!

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Re: The King of Fighters XIII General Discussion Thread
« Reply #1910 on: April 29, 2011, 01:02:32 PM »
Shen is the S tier nobody hates.

QFT.

Co-signed.

Part of the reason why I like Shen is that his moveset feels really balanced. All of his moves have their own distinct uses, and nearly all of them see regular use during a match. (Only possible exception would be his NeoMax.)

Contrasted against Shen are characters like Kula whose wins invariably boil down to Crow Bite and Ray Spin (including EX version and follow-ups). She could literally lose diamond breath, counter shell and ALL her DMs, and it would barely budge her place in the overall tiers.

Ignoring comparisons against other characters, I think Shen is a great example of a well-balanced character. Just in regard to how well his moves work together. Kula would be the opposite.

MUSOLINI

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Re: The King of Fighters XIII General Discussion Thread
« Reply #1911 on: April 29, 2011, 06:14:16 PM »
well at least shen and even kyo feel fair (from vids i gotta say kyo > shen).

also we can all agree, those whove played and not played the game: K & raiden > kula & lizzy > all. these bitches need some toning down. more lag on k's fb and after fb attacks, more charge or less damage on dropkicks, less juggle ability on lizzys dp, kula just srtaight losing her  ;dn ;db ;bk kick. or at least losing its properties. there, balance solved. it aint that fucking hard, cmon snkp, wtf is up?
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Diavle

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Re: The King of Fighters XIII General Discussion Thread
« Reply #1912 on: April 29, 2011, 08:00:27 PM »
kula just srtaight losing her  ;dn ;db ;bk kick. or at least losing its properties. there, balance solved. it aint that fucking hard, cmon snkp, wtf is up?

Kula was top tier in 2002 and XI as well, using the same tools, so at this point its obvious that SNK is doing this on purpose.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2011, 08:03:20 PM by Diavle »

Nagare_Ryouma

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Re: The King of Fighters XIII General Discussion Thread
« Reply #1913 on: April 29, 2011, 08:03:32 PM »
For Raiden, I think they should just remove the drop kick.
I thought about it and I think it's the easiest way to solve the problem.
Raiden is already a more than competent character without it. Some normals are good & blowback is great.
He already has 4 special attacks. He has the spit, the shoulder tacke, a special throw and an aerial special throw, plus he has 2 Supers.
The dropkick doesn´t even have new animation, so it would be a loss on the art or aesthetic department either.
I know many people will disagree but in my opinion, the best solution is to remove the attack.
I would also like to point out that I think K' is a little overrated. I'm not saying he is useless, he is a very good character, but I think people usually play against him in the wrong way.

fiol

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Re: The King of Fighters XIII General Discussion Thread
« Reply #1914 on: April 30, 2011, 02:32:45 AM »
For Raiden, I think they should just remove the drop kick.
I thought about it and I think it's the easiest way to solve the problem.
Raiden is already a more than competent character without it. Some normals are good & blowback is great.
He already has 4 special attacks. He has the spit, the shoulder tacke, a special throw and an aerial special throw, plus he has 2 Supers.
The dropkick doesn´t even have new animation, so it would be a loss on the art or aesthetic department either.
I know many people will disagree but in my opinion, the best solution is to remove the attack.
I would also like to point out that I think K' is a little overrated. I'm not saying he is useless, he is a very good character, but I think people usually play against him in the wrong way.

I too hate Raiden but remove that attack is useless.. i mean he has that attack since FF.....u can lower the damage but remove it all is nonsense


KOF XIII: billy, ralf, clark
KOF XII: ralf,kyo,ryo

a11111357

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Re: The King of Fighters XIII General Discussion Thread
« Reply #1915 on: April 30, 2011, 04:04:55 AM »
Arcadia rankings


ARCADIA DATABASE
ビデオゲーム部門 ランキング  コックピット/アップライト部門
118頁           2011年3月16日~2011年4月15日


インカムランキング

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1位 機動戦士ガンダム エクストリームバーサス<バンダイナムコゲームス> / 266.7 pts.
2位 鉄拳6 BLOODLINE REBELLION <バンダイナムコゲームス> / 245.5 pts.
3位 BLAZBLUE CONTINUUM SHIFT II <アークシステムワークス> / 229.8 pts.
4位 SUPER STREET FIGHTER Ⅳ ARCADE  EDITION<カプコン> / 156.2 pts.
5位 Virtua Fighter5 FINAL SHOWDOWN  <セガ> / 153.3 pts.
6位 アルカナハート3 <エクサム> / 95.9 pts.
7位 MELTY BLOOD Actress Again Current Code <エコールソフトウェア> /86.7 pts.
8位 STREET FIGHTER III 3rd STRIKE <カプコン> / 85.3 pts.
9位 THE KING OF FIGHTERS XIII <SNK PLAYMORE> / 78.4 pts.
10位  MARVEL VS CAPCOM 2<カプコン> / 72.3 pts.

Delta

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Re: The King of Fighters XIII General Discussion Thread
« Reply #1916 on: April 30, 2011, 05:10:01 AM »
MVC2 in the top 10? That's madness XD


No surprises in the top 3, and well, at least KOF XIII is still there.

Aenthin

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Re: The King of Fighters XIII General Discussion Thread
« Reply #1917 on: April 30, 2011, 08:43:27 AM »
I just realized. If Mai is able to do an air throw after one of her corner combos, you think other characters with air throws can do it too? I'm looking at Yuri for example. Saiha is an oft used corner-combo move with quick recovery.

Other characters with an air throw:
Clark
Benimaru
...

Actually, that's about it. Both Athena and Leona lost their air throws.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2011, 09:39:04 AM by Aenthin »

Ash

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Re: The King of Fighters XIII General Discussion Thread
« Reply #1918 on: April 30, 2011, 11:12:27 AM »
I just realized. If Mai is able to do an air throw after one of her corner combos, you think other characters with air throws can do it too? I'm looking at Yuri for example. Saiha is an oft used corner-combo move with quick recovery.

Other characters with an air throw:
Clark
Benimaru
...

Actually, that's about it. Both Athena and Leona lost their air throws.

Yes, they can.

a11111357

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