Elisabeth Branctorche (Console)

[Reiki.Kito]

That's pretty neat. Elizabeth really has some serious tools. I really think aside from the negligible lack of a moving fireball, she's a very good and balanced character with a slight lean towards combo-heavy damage and capitalizing on situational circumstances rather than poking, zoning, and the like.

Safe jumps are great for characters like that because they need to always be in the opponent's face.

[Killey]

I view Elisabeth more as a rush down character because she has a ton of offensive options but her defensive options are a bit lacking or situational. Safe jump setups will benefit any character but definitely a plus for Elisabeth to have one off of two common situations.

[SPLIPH]

are there situations where hyper hop j.A > hyper hop j.B wont be a 4 frame safe jump? say i dont time the last dp+Ax2 correctly and save the combo by going for the reset after one. depending on the height the hyper hop j.A wont connect there  and i have a do a normal hop.

will this still be a 4 frame safe jump when the hyper hop j.A connects? on a regular hop would i have to go for cr.B to not get reversaled, or is that not safe either?

[Killey]

In the safe jump setup the j.B doesn't have to be a hyper hop, you can do a hop j.B as well. I typically do neutral hop j.B.

If you screw up the timing of dp+A x2 then yes, it won't be a 4 frame safe jump anymore. The reason being is that you need to knock the opponent as high in the air as possible, so that when you do the hyper hop j.A you have enough time to land and do the safe hop j.B.

For example, if you do dp+C, and then try to do a deep j.A but you mistimed it slightly. If you recognize this and try to salvage it with hyper hop j.A, hop j.B it won't be a 4f safe jump anymore. Meaty c.B's aren't safe to being with and are susceptible to certain reversals.

The safest things to do in those situations is to either do j.C (instead of j.A), Grand Rafale or bait out a reversal after the j.C/D/A. You can take some risks and do other mix ups but it really depends on how your opponent plays.

[Sir Octopus (Saiki)]

How do you pull off 2 grand rafael one after the other? and can you follow up the first DM with a dp.A?

[karn]

How do you pull off 2 grand rafael one after the other? and can you follow up the first DM with a dp.A?

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I think landing two Grand Rafales in a row needs specific spacing from the wall; there's an example in Mission Mode - Trial.
The position your opponent starts at in training mode (or after using RESTART), you can do dp.A, dp.A neutral jump A, then do Grand Rafale as soon as you land. Somehow the last hits of Grand Rafale don't connect because of the opponent's height and position. Since the last hit of Grand Rafale causes the knockdown and the last hit doesn't happen, they float down in a free juggle state so you can reset them with st.A or close C. You can cancel the normal you used to reset into Grand Rafale, but there's enough time to recover from your normal and just juggle into the second Grand Rafale since it's fast enough.

You cannot follow up the first DM with dp.A because they are about to fall to the ground and you have to hit them with something really quick. Only st.A (maybe cr.A) and cl.C seem fast enough to stop them from falling.

[Sir Octopus (Saiki)]

I'm sure I've seen a dp hit after the DM but am unable to find the video.

As for the spacing. I can start it in the corner and do a jamping back A and pull off 2 DM this way, I am more interested in finding the dpA after DM timing though.

[karn]

I'm sure I've seen a dp hit after the DM but am unable to find the video.

As for the spacing. I can start it in the corner and do a jamping back A and pull off 2 DM this way, I am more interested in finding the dpA after DM timing though.

Oh cool I didn't know you could do that.

[Moments later] Tried it, it isn't working for me. I'm skeptical about this dp.A followup to Grand Rafale too.

In any case it's all just for style rather than damage unless you are confirming off of dp.A and eventually HD activating off of the st.A reset to max cancel the 2nd grand rafale.

[Killey]

I'm sure I've seen a dp hit after the DM but am unable to find the video.

As for the spacing. I can start it in the corner and do a jamping back A and pull off 2 DM this way, I am more interested in finding the dpA after DM timing though.

Let me know if this is possible and I'll update the wiki with this information. In my testing with double grand rafale combos when I was writing the wiki I wasn't able to combo into other DM's or Special Moves. The best I could get was a normal into another Grand Rafale. Maybe this was something that was removed from the arcade version of XIII?

[Sir Octopus (Saiki)]

it's possible it was the AV, was trying a stun combo but it'll have to wait until I can confirm this. Was able to pull off a Raiden stu though, added that to the next combo vid.

Can she hit a dp after the neomax?

[Killey]

Hmmm...It might be possible to hit a DP after a neomax because I know she can hit a lvl 2 DM after the neomax but it's height specific. I'll see if I can find the video of the neomax -> lvl 2 DM so you have something to work off of.

EDIT: Found it.

KOF XIII Elisabeth Combo 1026dmg BALA

Based on the video, BALA Neo Max cancels after the first hit of Grand Rafale because they're at the highest peak at that point. The Neo Max hits the opponent off screen, which allows him to do the lvl 2 DM before they land so it may be possible to sneak a DP in there.

[marchefelix]

Did not know she could do this:

Liz demo for karn

Also, I don't know if the proper term for this is "mind game", but what do you think of doing this on an enemy to trick them?

Ground CD, whiff cancel to qcf+K (on initial frames of CD, in case that wasn't clear), then command grab.

I think this could work on an opponent who has just recovered from a safe roll or from getting back up from the ground.

[Killey]

Yeah, the invinci frames of EX command dash is pretty good and something you can use on wake up or vs certain strings. I've actually have listed this in the wiki before including using the s.CD, command dash, command grab.

It can be used for oki games but it can be pretty risky if they wake up pushing buttons or they do a reversal, which is a pretty high probability given the way the motion looks. I like it more in resets like DP+A, jump back C, s.CD whiff cancel command dash into command grab. You can also change the command grab to either Etincelle or Coup De Veine to catch people jumping out. That particular setup is pretty good for fishing for counter hits into high damage corner juggles.

[marchefelix]

You're right, it is better for resets. Dunno why I didn't think of that =P

Which do you prefer more? Command grab or counter hit baiting with her offense moves? And for the latter, wouldn't a backwards step work better?

[Killey]

Completely depends on how you read your opponent. I prefer the forward dash because you can condition them to jump in anticipation of the command grab so when you go for Etincelle or Coup De Veine instead it catches them by surprise. If you do backwards dash they're less likely to jump back. However, that being said if you got them cornered they'll try to jump out of the corner and that's where backwards dash into Etincelle can be handy.