Elisabeth Branctorche (Arcade Version)

[tastylumpia]

If that's true, Liz is going to be a lot weaker than I thought in console. Nerfed damage, nerfed meter gain, nerfed followup to EX counter AND her command dashes lack invincibility?

I'll probably still play her because I like the character design but she may not suit my playstyle much.

And by playstyle, I mean abusing overpowered tools.

[TheRook]

i dont think she got hit too hard...

Liz:
-Liz's midscreen, 1 stock no drive 511 damage combo now deals 391dmg.
-Liz's Ex DM now does no pushback on blocked opponents
-Liz's Ex counter only allows followups with specials, not normals.
-Liz still can do the reset DM midscreen still (personally tested).
-Liz now has an Ex qcf+K.  Whenever you cancel the teleport it'll automatically perform an Ex version of the special you cancelled into (like Ex dp+P), only performing 1 meter/stock total.

and another quote from the console page

Elizabeth

• qcf+A builds little meter.
• qcf,hcb+P damage toned down.
•qcf,qcf+AC explodes on hit, meaning it no longer pushes the opponent back and can be punished more easily on block.
-qcb+AC counter followup recovery can only be canceled into a special.
• Older qcf,hcb+P combos didn't work in the newest build, but it may have been possible from the EVO build. May work from different timings or setups.
• New move: qcf/qcb+BD command dash. Faster, projectile invulnerable and has lower body invuln. If you cancel this EX dash into a special, it becomes an EX special for free (i.e. costs no Drive or Super Meter).

so that new special seems pretty cool~

[Rex Dart]

(blocked) cl.C,  f+B -> qcf+BD -> hcb,f+P sounds like it'll be pretty hot.

Overall, Elizabeth is weaker, but her mix-up game sounds stronger. I think she'll be more fun in the console version.

[TheRook]

yeah her damage is overall lower it seems, but i dont think it will detour people from playing her~ if anything it leveled the playing field....look what happened to Raiden~ lol

[Kane317]

She does deal less damage than arcade but that's because she delt one of the highest (511 vs Maxima's 512, 1 stock, no drive, midscreen).  391 is still high for non corner; Terry deals less even in the corner.

[bigvador]

dosnt matter how much her damage go down shes still has one the best (if not the best) combo abilitys in the game now when they start changin her frame data then she'll b a problem

[Saitsuofleaves]

Pretty much.  A character doesn't really effectively change if all their move properties remain identical.

[tastylumpia]

Damage is a property of a move, is it not?

If everything about a character remains the same but their damage output is lower, in quantifiable terms the character is absolutely worse.

[bigvador]

just because her damage is lower dosnt mean a thing but what ur saying is that she is garbage because she deals less damage her combo and juggling ability made her strong and her great defensive and offensive moves

[Kane317]

Damage is a property of a move, is it not?

If everything about a character remains the same but their damage output is lower, in quantifiable terms the character is absolutely worse.

Technically, yes.  However, in terms of the entire argument, she's overall the same and still good (she was just a little too good in v1.1).

[Nagare_Ryouma]

2 questions:

Does Etincelles still has all those juggles capabilities? I've seen some console vids in wich the Ely had the player against the corner and when she started doing etincelles they would miss after the first or second one. I don´t know if it was bad timming or it just doesn´t works as in the arcade.

My second question is regarding her Neomax, as a standalone attack it works as a counter. What happens if I throw a fireball (normal, ex, Haouhshokoken, whatever) and she performes it?

[TheRook]

In Regards to her NEO-MAX, since its a screen Filler...it would work(im thinking theoretically) 

[tastylumpia]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying she'll be absolute garbage but I'm thinking she's going to be noticeably weaker in console.

I am nowhere near a Liz expert but I have discussed it with very experienced Elizabeth players.

just because her damage is lower dosnt mean a thing but what ur saying is that she is garbage because she deals less damage her combo and juggling ability made her strong and her great defensive and offensive moves

It may sound like a simplistic argument, but raw damage output is very important aspect in character strength. If you think about the top tier in this game, it seems as if a key determining factor is the damage they can deal relative to their meter usage. Raiden, K', Shen, Maxima etc all do big damage for relatively low (if any) gauge expenditure. Compounded with the nerf to Etincelles meter gain (one her primary battery methods), you'll have less meter and even less damage potential with that meter.

Her comboability; long combos/juggles are cool but really what's important is how much damage they deal and meter they build. Her BnB is apparently reduced by over a 100 points, that's huge. She has strong juggle followups with EX grab and EX Etincelles in the corner, but again, both cost meter which she will be building significantly less of.

Offensive options; she has ok pokes and good corner pressure but as I understand it she's played best as a defensive/counter-offensive character. Her offense was "scary" because her DM juggle did so much for just 1 bar, which again, it doesn't anymore.

Defensive options; her best defensive option was probably EX counter. With nerfed meter gain you'll have much less access to prediction counters, and the follow up has also been nerfed, which again means less damage and less meter built back (assuming you were even successful with your counter).

[TheRook]

Its as Kane317 said before, the properties of her moves haven't really changed(as far as we know) so shes still solid~ her changes didn't hit her as bad as you make it sound. its not like she gained most her meter from whiffing Etincelles...and that's the main thing your stressing...

Sure she was Beastly in the arcade but maybe was too good...I can only say that the changes done to her was to accommodate the overall changes to the console release...if that makes any sense...

[bigvador]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying she'll be absolute garbage but I'm thinking she's going to be noticeably weaker in console.

I am nowhere near a Liz expert but I have discussed it with very experienced Elizabeth players.

just because her damage is lower dosnt mean a thing but what ur saying is that she is garbage because she deals less damage her combo and juggling ability made her strong and her great defensive and offensive moves

It may sound like a simplistic argument, but raw damage output is very important aspect in character strength. If you think about the top tier in this game, it seems as if a key determining factor is the damage they can deal relative to their meter usage. Raiden, K', Shen, Maxima etc all do big damage for relatively low (if any) gauge expenditure. Compounded with the nerf to Etincelles meter gain (one her primary battery methods), you'll have less meter and even less damage potential with that meter.

Her comboability; long combos/juggles are cool but really what's important is how much damage they deal and meter they build. Her BnB is apparently reduced by over a 100 points, that's huge. She has strong juggle followups with EX grab and EX Etincelles in the corner, but again, both cost meter which she will be building significantly less of.

Offensive options; she has ok pokes and good corner pressure but as I understand it she's played best as a defensive/counter-offensive character. Her offense was "scary" because her DM juggle did so much for just 1 bar, which again, it doesn't anymore.

Defensive options; her best defensive option was probably EX counter. With nerfed meter gain you'll have much less access to prediction counters, and the follow up has also been nerfed, which again means less damage and less meter built back (assuming you were even successful with your counter).

all ur talkin about is how much she is gettin nerfed and the main 2 things ur saying is that her meter and damage but when u really look at it most people are going to use her as there anchor so most people are going to build at least 2 or 3 stocks. u talk about her offense and defense but just by what ur saying she is still good as a anchor