The Judge's Letter

[krazykone123]

You fellas think that the dreamcancel chat room is really needed especially for players that don't want to go to #snkplaymore?

Nilcam and ANSWER said that, not me bro.

If people really think so, then why is the chat room channel always empty?

You tell me lol, dunno why it's there if yall ain't gonna use it.

[Dark Geese]

You fellas think that the dreamcancel chat room is really needed especially for players that don't want to go to #snkplaymore? If people really think so, then why is the chat room channel always empty?

I personally would prefer the DC chat room anyday of the week, I'll even drop in there helping people out tremendously when I am not busy with work/school etc, I would be more than happy to help people out.

[nilcam]

You fellas think that the dreamcancel chat room is really needed especially for players that don't want to go to #snkplaymore? If people really think so, then why is the chat room channel always empty?

I put up a poll to see if people wanted it and the few who responded were interested. It's intended to be a feature for the Dream Cancel community, to be used in any way it's needed. It was pretty helpful the day we played on GGPO and ArcLive. I wouldn't be opposed to scheduling times for gameplay discussion there.

[desmond_kof]

Damn, you can't sit idle in the chat? Didn't know that. LOL.

[nilcam]

Damn, you can't sit idle in the chat? Didn't know that. LOL.

You can, if you'd like.

[desmond_kof]

How you do that? I'm there now. I tried a few minutes ago and I got kicked after a while.

[nilcam]

I think you need to register your nickname.

Use this code: /msg NickServ REGISTER password email

The system will send you a code to register your nickname and that will provide you with more privileges.

[desmond_kof]

Mine is already registered...

[nilcam]

Maybe it's something I need to enable. I'll check into it.

[Aenthin]

You're still getting kicked out, Desmond? I've been on the #dream_cancel IRC for hours on IRC or Mibbit yet I still haven't gotten kicked out. Kinda weird that you do.

Also, as much as I try to check the IRC for people, I alt-tab a lot, making people think I'm AFK or something. It makes me sad when someone logs in only to log out as quickly as they got in. ^^;

Maybe we need mods dedicated to the channel.

---

Anyway, yeah. This is a good read, though I don't really have anything to say apart from what's already said.

[desmond_kof]

Aenthin, if you look at my last post, it was almost a month ago, I fixed the problem a few weeks ago using mibbit.com.

[Aenthin]

Ahaha. I was still thinking it was January. My bad, my bad.

[steamwolf]

Albeit for me to revive old threads, and forgive me for being so late to the party here irregardless but...I'd like to share a few thoughts.

For one, according to the Judge, the "Street Fighter" mentality has kinda scared people off from playing KoF. I could see that, but I don't see Street Fighter as THE American fighting game especially when things like Tekken 6 still sell better overall. Street Fighter IV has sold well, but take a look back in time around the late nineties and early 2000s. What really began to cause a stir and kept the community alive was truly, Marvel vs Capcom 2. This was THE American game. It was not widely played outside the US, not in Japan and not in Central/South America. It is basically an American dominated scene. Back then, the community was smaller and so many fans of <insert game here> kind of melded in with the rest of them here in the states. But Marvel dominated here, and always has. You can say SF is Basketball but then that would make Marvel? American Football. And it pretty much is that way still today. You got some Japanese players like Tokido, interested in playing but overall the Japanese players aren't accustomed to it and don't play.

Now that point goes on to something else The Judge had to say. This goes along with how the "three vs three" turns people off. If you look at America as dominated by SF? Yes, you're right. However, I see things differently. I see more of the casual or less "fans" of a certain series, branching out more into other areas. Games like Tekken, appealing more for being a more realistic fighting game experience. Coupled with the fact that the core and strength of the FG community America was Marvel vs Capcom 2, a 3v3 fighting game with a pretty huge emphasis on not only jumps but FLIGHT as well as TAGOUTS? I seriously question KoF scaring people off with just jumping and 3v3. The notion seems silly when you understand the MvC2 factor in all this. Street Fighter seriously began to die off around the time MvC2 came out. Sure there was Alpha 3...but it didn't have nearly the same impact as MvC2. And 3rd Strike wasn't even recognized here for years to come.

Now thats all just mostly, me seeing a few flaws in the argument. Overall, Judge makes some great points but I really don't think it has much to do with KoF scaring people off, or the SF Factor. Don't get me wrong, people LOVE SF here as well but...its not the same as Marvel is here. After all...its mahvel baybee. But now lets go on to something that I believe is a much larger problem. One many KoF fans do not see, nor do many Capcom, Arc System Works, etc fans see. Do you know how much of the industry fighting games combined hold? Thats every fighting game currently selling on the market, between every company out there period. I'll tell you, but you won't believe me too easily or like it. Our genre? Holds a large 3% of the market. Yep, three percent. Thats a lot ain't it? Almost as much as...wait...no. No its NOT a lot. Uh oh! So whats selling? Well, FPS' sell and RTS is picking up as well. Strategy games and RPGs hold the largest dominance in the industry. While you can say SFIV sold well, I'll tell you this: it sold average at best. Do you know big name rpgs sell five mil pretty regularly? If not more? Most big-budget FPS games sell close to ten mil, which is ten times more than SFIV. You can say that SF hasn't been in the industry for ten years and yeah neither has Marvel...but the industry has changed. Back in the early 2000s, gaming was still niche. The PS2 succeeded in turning gaming mainstream, which was only furthered pushed forward by the Wii. The 360 brought the strength of the FPS genre to light, and Starcraft II as revived the RTS scene. Now if you look at the big leagues, people who get sponsored to play FPS? Look at them. They have teams, they have fans who want autographs and they get LEGITIMATE corporate sponsorships and are paid to play. What do we have? A few teams that seem shady about payment and Madcatz, who is an American company and only sponsors a Japanese player. Awesome.

And SFIV is the best selling fighting game right now! And yet its only average in sales! Now try to imagine what kind of numbers KoF, Blazblue, etc hold. How much they matter on the whole, compared to all this. Ladies and gentlemen, this is the problem: people are too busy living in a bubble, or too busy pointing fingers and whining to notice the overall, frightening, truth: Fighting games are still on the verge of death. This is a concept many may be hard-pressed to believe but I go by actual results. Check vgchartz.com sometime and look up the sales figures on fighting games. Then compare them to FPS or RPG. You'll quickly see even without the ESA report, this is the unfortunate truth. I've come to believe that everyone needs to spread FIGHTING game awareness, and quit worrying about trying to get KoF's name out there. Or Street Fighter. Or Marvel. Or Blazblue. Spread EVERYTHING! I mean who cares who wins at this point? They might ALL vanish soon. Oh and this "boycotting" crap needs to stop cause uh...doesn't help, only hurts the overall problem. Many people may feel this is over-exaggeration on my part, or may feel it won't matter in the long-run but...Capcom can disappear again at any time. Tekken was not enough to sustain the industry. 60% of Capcom still feels SF should not continue and they are being very limiting on what older titles they decide to bring back. They could stop this at any time...and then whats gonna happen? SNK is not capable of saving the entire industry and sad to say it, the only fighting game with the sales figures to stand a chance of keeping things alive is Smash. Yeah, sucks doesn't it? But at times like this, its better to embrace everything than continue hating or pointing fingers. And I also see, the entire FG community is more spread out now than ever before. I don't know if this is a good thing or not but...we as FG players need to spread the word of all games, not just SNK. At least, this is my stance. Around here, I maintain my SNK love but I just can't justify doing solely that outside of this place. I'd rather see SNK fall forever than see the entire genre crumble away into history like Pac-man and Donkey Kong.

[desmond_kof]

And SFIV is the best selling fighting game right now! And yet its only average in sales! Now try to imagine what kind of numbers KoF, Blazblue, etc hold. How much they matter on the whole, compared to all this. Ladies and gentlemen, this is the problem: people are too busy living in a bubble, or too busy pointing fingers and whining to notice the overall, frightening, truth: Fighting games are still on the verge of death. This is a concept many may be hard-pressed to believe but I go by actual results. Check vgchartz.com sometime and look up the sales figures on fighting games.

I strongly disagree with this, I feel that fighting games are back in force of popularity not because of sales figures but because of how many people are playing them nowadays, new and upcoming games, the hype and excitement around them and how many people are interested in learning them.

[solidshark]

I'm chiming in on this one late too; read it, but just now decided to speak up. I agree on some level with most of what's been said already. Thanks to Dark Geese by bringing up the Judge's letter, and especially thanks to Steam for his comments, which do drive an even bigger reality home.

The closest arcade to me is really a LAN center (the Gameyard) that has 360's, PS3's, and several PCs. I've gone there to Blazblue, SFIV, and Tekken casuals, and often several show up. This is also the place where I tried holding Michigan SNK ranbats, where I'll try again once things in RL get back in order to do so. Problem is, put all the people that come to those casuals for every fighting game, and it still doesn't compare to the # of people playing FPS and RTS on a slow weekday. As much as we might not see it with the surge of interests in fighters in the industry, the fighting genre can disappear again off the mainstream/casual interest radar as easily as it did before SFIV showed up. Yes there was Tekken, and even constant KOF's abroad, and even Smash, but pitted against any average FPS and it's sunk.

The fighting game industry is a grow/die type of industry, it's growing now with familair franchises making new titles (SF, Marvel, MK, SFvsTekken, KOF, etc), and even with independent titles that might make some impact like Skull Girls. In all of that, the best thing any and everybody can do is support everything we like. Fighting is pretty much my favorite genre, and I like most fighters old or new. I feel a need to support SNK a lot more because of how little spotlight it gets in a genre that already suffers from a lack of spotlight, but I won't support only SNK; mostly, but not only. Most fighting fans should realize that every consumer and every consuerm's actions counts. Whether your a hardcore, casual, or somewhere in-between, show support by paying, playing, organizing, hosting, teaching, community-building, traveling, something.

I hope it's really like how Desmond says, but it might be better if we treat it like it's not in force