The King of Fighters XIII General Discussion Thread

[Diavle]

As for the HD deal. Take the 2nd match of AI's first vid (shen vs terry). All I was thinking most of that round was how to land an HD combo and nearly lost the match. I've even seen Mr.KOF almost lose a few games just so he can do an HD combo. It's all good for show but it wouldn't be the first thing in my mind during tourney play.

Thats not really an issue with HD though, more with the player. Basically trying to show off instead of using things at the right moments. Like when the dev in that SNK vid pulled that big combo with Terry on the Kyo user. Kyo was wide open and BAM. That's how its supposed to be, not trying to land it no matter what and getting your ass handed to you in the process.

Kinda like newer players having this burning desire to super no matter what but the experienced players usually saving them for sure fire situations, usually combos.

Its a very cool looking thing when a HD combo lands full on with all the bells and whistles so its understandable for ppl to want to land it, especially right now when the game is new.

When all is said and done HD will be a factor in tons of comebacks and those who ignore it will be the weaker for it.

[THE ANSWER]

@skatanmilla: we are NOT using all of our resources we are using one, you gotta read the question. You are doing a good job.

@gramas: "I Think this is obvious" -ofcourse it is =)

"but we were talking about an OPPORTUNITY to use an HD mode" -no we are not, you gotta read a few pages back.

@t3h mAsTarOth...!: you are right 10% is not worth it (unless if for the kill), but what about 20%-30%? and you would still have some meters left?

@Diavle: You have finally understood my young grasshopper

@4leaf: thanks for your support in todays class.

[t3h mAsTarOth...!]

if i don't have any meter left, and it's 30% more... it's a no brainer... i'd go for it... that being said i usually like characters that aren't terrible without meter... defense & offence wise... *XI Clark* so i do tend to blow my meter rather carelessly at times...

[Diavle]

@Diavle: You have finally understood my young grasshopper

EDIT: No need to get personal.  He's a mod, but he can also have an opinion -Kane317

You know, heh, since you are so against HD and everything, you should have no trouble swearing it off, right? Like, right here and right now, swear that you will never use it in a match since, afterall, according to you, its such a huge waste. Do it.

I mean clearly, an extra 20% of damage is way more important than being able to destroy your opponent. And, of course, there is no chance of your HD bar being full before you are able to land that 20%.

Hmm... whom would I hold back against more and think twice before doing something, someone who can spank me or kill me?

Would you fear Daigo more if he could drive cancel or hyper drive?

Would you fear Daigo more if he could dp or FADC dp into Ultra?

[4leaf]

When the opportunity presents itself then by all means go for it. It was unfortunate that it didn't come up in my situation (or I was too slow to react when it did) because I was thinking that the best option to beat Mr.KOF was to go for big damage.

[Ash]

Pretty sure the decision on whether to use drive cancels or to go for HD combos depends on the opponent you play against and your consistency. Also it can depend on the character you use. Some characters can dish out of a lot damage with only 1 drive cancel.

Other determining factors are how health the opponent has left, how fast you build your meter, how your start your combo. If you're just using a special attack to start with, you can't go into HD, you can only drive cancel. A good example of this would be Chin hitting with hcf+K.

In regards to HD mode, can you bypass like 2k2 could?? Like old maxima cB, cB, qcf+BC etc.

And have anyone found certain links into DM via BC bypass aswell? EG : Yashiro cA, cA, sA, sB, qcf x2 BC

I actually found this last week, but didn't read the post until now, and the answer is yes.

Ex. Iori d.A -> d.A -> f+A -> qcf hcb+BC
Ex. K' d.A -> d.BC (d.C will come out) -> qcf+A -> whatevers

If you ever have any motion overlap that has both kick and punch version, the C version will come out. Another shortcut is doing BCD for moves, such as s.BCD or j.BCD (j. CD will come out and you will enter HD mode). Might possibly work for EX Supers as well.

I think I read something about being able to do AB roll and cancel into dp+BC. I'll need to check this myself and confirm it. I do believe I saw K' do this in one of the Japanese videos.

[davidkong07]

i personally believe that meter usage, in 13 or most other games, can't really be argued in any kind of general way. even in a game like ssf4, where meters are very simple, top players have completely different tendencies in terms of how they want to use meter, and this also changes throughout different match ups. for example, Mr. KoF uses meter for his Ken in a completely different way than JoontheBaboon uses meter for his Ken. (They both destroy me at street fighter regardless hahaha)

in a game like KoF13, where you can use meter in so many different offensive and defensive situations, there are way more variables than in a game like ssf4 when it comes to meter usage. more variables means that different players are eventually going to find different uses for meter that make sense in very specific situations. so really, i think to argue either way, to say that HD combos are gdlk or HD combos are stupid, is kinda like arguing which flavor of ice cream is the best. it doesn't really make sense, because its going to be different for different people.

at the end of the day the person who's right is the person who wins. so yeah, i think if you guys seriously want to argue about HD combos, save it for a real life tournament, and then when you beat the other guy you can be like "see, i fucking told you! that argument we had on dreamcancel that one time, i was fucking right!" hahahahah

[THE ANSWER]

@Diavle: You have finally understood my young grasshopper

That nilcam made someone who can't read a mod? Yeah.

You know, heh, since you are so against HD and everything, you should have no trouble swearing it off, right? Like, right here and right now, swear that you will never use it in a match since, afterall, according to you, its such a huge waste. Do it.

I mean clearly, an extra 20% of damage is way more important than being able to destroy your opponent. And, of course, there is no chance of your HD bar being full before you are able to land that 20%.

Hmm... whom would I hold back against more and think twice before doing something, someone who can spank me or kill me?

Would you fear Daigo more if he could drive cancel or hyper drive?

Would you fear Daigo more if he could dp or FADC dp into Ultra?

dude you had it right on your previous post?

"Against HD"?, "swearing it off"? I don't recall saying those words? o_0

What I can tell you is that at the moment I use a full HD combo in about 75% of my games

When the opportunity presents itself then by all means go for it. It was unfortunate that it didn't come up in my situation (or I was too slow to react when it did) because I was thinking that the best option to beat Mr.KOF was to go for big damage.

My good friend RJ since you are a Shen player and his got one hell of an HD COMBO (as 3rd character with FULL DRIVE and 5 meters ofcourse) and I know you base your match around landing that combo with Shen, why don't you share with us what is a match for you like? also do you only think of doing this combo once you are in your 3rd character or do you have to plan ahead? meaning do you hold back in some combos with your 2nd character to save DRIVE and METER for Shen? have you ever lost a match with a FULL DRIVE and 5 meters trying to land this 99% combo?

[Ash]

When the opportunity presents itself then by all means go for it. It was unfortunate that it didn't come up in my situation (or I was too slow to react when it did) because I was thinking that the best option to beat Mr.KOF was to go for big damage.

My good friend RJ since you are a Shen player and his got one hell of an HD COMBO (as 3rd character with FULL DRIVE and 5 meters ofcourse) and I know you base your match around landing that combo with Shen, why don't you share with us what is a match for you like? also do you only think of doing this combo once you are in your 3rd character or do you have to plan ahead? meaning do you hold back in some combos with your 2nd character to save DRIVE and METER for Shen? have you ever lost a match with a FULL DRIVE and 5 meters trying to land this 99% combo?

Against Mr. KOF, I keep telling him to use his meters whenever he can and not go for the full combo unless the opportunity is right there. He'd have a much better chance using qcfx2+AC to punish jumps/fireballs/almost anything or going for EX hcb,f+AC -> whatevers.

Against anyone else, going HD or use super/drive cancels either is fine.

[4leaf]

I always try and go for HD combos with Shen and on the times I don't land it, I lose 9 out of 10. Heck, If I'm down to Shen as my last guy and I'm going against someone's first, I would usually save up HD and super until the 4th or 5th round. Yeah I'm stubborn like that. I can't say that I'll be doing the same thing during tourneys but I sure hope that's not the case.

[JTSNOW6]

There isn't any right answer to this debate...

I never got to hit up training mode when I was in L.A. last week so I never really went for any hyper drive combos but I can say that I was the ONLY person in the house on Friday to beat Mr. KOF (Even if it was only once) :D .  I went for BnBs and the occasional simple DC (ex. Ryo DP -> DC -> Ranbu).  At the end of the match my Terry had 4 stocks and a full HD bar but the way I finished it was an outside-of-combo EX Bustah Wolf so you just never know what will actually get the W.  At the end of the day there will never be a strategy that is all-encompassing and covers every single situation so HD combos are practical, DC combos are practical, EVERYTHING is practical because it all goes towards conditioning and even a seemingly lame strategy can come out of left field and trip out great players.

[Ash]

There isn't any right answer to this debate...

I never got to hit up training mode when I was in L.A. last week so I never really went for any hyper drive combos but I can say that I was the ONLY person in the house on Friday to beat Mr. KOF (Even if it was only once) :D .  I went for BnBs and the occasional simple DC (ex. Ryo DP -> DC -> Ranbu).  At the end of the match my Terry had 4 stocks and a full HD bar but the way I finished it was an outside-of-combo EX Bustah Wolf so you just never know what will actually get the W.  At the end of the day there will never be a strategy that is all-encompassing and covers every single situation so HD combos are practical, DC combos are practical, EVERYTHING is practical because it all goes towards conditioning and even a seemingly lame strategy can come out of left field and trip out great players.

I don't mean to burst your bubble but he was messing around trying get enough meter to try stuff. I think I must've saw him do like 5 uppercut whiffs on purpose to build his gauge.

[Kane317]

There isn't any right answer to this debate...

I never got to hit up training mode when I was in L.A. last week so I never really went for any hyper drive combos but I can say that I was the ONLY person in the house on Friday to beat Mr. KOF (Even if it was only once) :D .  I went for BnBs and the occasional simple DC (ex. Ryo DP -> DC -> Ranbu).  At the end of the match my Terry had 4 stocks and a full HD bar but the way I finished it was an outside-of-combo EX Bustah Wolf so you just never know what will actually get the W.  At the end of the day there will never be a strategy that is all-encompassing and covers every single situation so HD combos are practical, DC combos are practical, EVERYTHING is practical because it all goes towards conditioning and even a seemingly lame strategy can come out of left field and trip out great players.

I don't mean to burst your bubble but he was messing around trying get enough meter to try stuff. I think I must've saw him do like 5 uppercut whiffs on purpose to build his gauge.

To add to that, you weren't the only one who beat him that day, I among other people did as well (you were just watching some other game with Trevor).  Otherwise, he'd have a 40+ streak if he only lost once then.

---

I'm too for the there's-no-right-answer train.  Different strategies, different opponents, different characters, too many variables.

Like Ash said before, Chin does real good damage with just a drive cancel and so I don't usually save up to HD.  Shen on the other hand has good combos all around: tons of non cancel combos, several good ones that do 50%+ dmg with one cancel and one stock but to spend any more than 1 cancel for Shen is almost always a waste --> Save for hyperdrive.  He simply does too much damage even if he doesn't have much stock but full HD.

To top it off, you can BC bypass by performing his Ex Command Grab with hcb~f+ABC which setups up a bunch of combos.

In contrast, Maxima isn't really a HD kinda person, I rather use two 50%+ one cancel two stock combo coz they're relatively easy to land.

It just depends.

[JeremyH]

AI getting props all over!

http://bbs.kofunion.net/read.php?tid=162370

[Kane317]

AI getting props all over!

http://bbs.kofunion.net/read.php?tid=162370

I was talking to 4leaf and Ash the other day-- we never factored in the youku, tudou and other sites alike that re-upload our vids.  Then there's the embedded YouTube clips on forums that (as far as I know) doesn't increase the hits.  When you think about it, we actually get a lot more exposure than we think we do.  If you then factor in the AI direct feeds are actually us playing, then the number does get pretty up there (the first XII direct feed vid reached 250K hits).  We also noticed, and it might just be a coincidence, after uploading a bunch of casuals, tons of vids popped up in a week showcasing their talent. It's really flattering, but it's not a popularity contest, we just want to know that our efforts aren't in vain; anything to move the community forward. =)