Deflection vs Just Defend

[solidshark]

For those who've played both Last Blade 2 and Garou, I'm curious which system you like better between the two. Also interested in what you think about the defensive system being on a directional button versus an action button.

[jinxhand]

I actually like both, as Deflecting allows for combos and such, especially in the air... However, Just Defending allows for a counter attack if timed right, and possibly a combo (I'm not sure what the frame window for that is in particular)... Not only that, but a smidgen of life can be restored from a successful Just Defend... This made it better than 3S parrying (the only good thing about 3S parrying are red parries I think)...

Even though JD is used in CvS2, I wished they somehow incorporated Deflecting in one of the grooves...

Quick question about Deflecting though... Was there a way to perform an evasive maneuver upon a successful deflection???

[sibarraz]

just defended was well executed on garou, but somehow, i don't like it in CVS2 and Neowave

never a fan of deflection

[solidshark]

Quick question about Deflecting though... Was there a way to perform an evasive maneuver upon a successful deflection???

Technically, yes. Kojiroh had a dash move where she could run behind you to throw you, but if you didn't enter the second command, she'd just end up on the other side. Then there was Moriya's teleportation. Outside of command moves though, good question.

[Aenthin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2a2iuPyqww
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7KcLiJk1t4

Huzzah!

The only thing I like with Deflection is that it made beating Kouryu extremely easier.

[marchefelix]

JD because it heals you 

[jinxhand]

Quick question about Deflecting though... Was there a way to perform an evasive maneuver upon a successful deflection???

Technically, yes. Kojiroh had a dash move where she could run behind you to throw you, but if you didn't enter the second command, she'd just end up on the other side. Then there was Moriya's teleportation. Outside of command moves though, good question.

During our most recent LB2 session, with P-Juzoh I managed to deflect one of your jump attacks, and I hit back and did what looked like a backwards tech roll... I still need to test some things out, but I believe evasive options are available for all characters... I still need to see if I can evade forwards, and whether or not my character passes the opponent or just advances forward...

[Nocturnal]

Both are different and depending on the game has their options. Deflecting is probably way more risky compared to Just Defending if you think about it. Deflecting has an actual recovery animation if it didn't land. Just Defending you can option select while deflecting you have to react using it. Both systems are nice in their respective games though. Also CvS2 and Neowave JD is a lot more stricter compared to MOTW. It's similar to how CvS2 P - groove parry is stricter compared to 3S parry.

[jinxhand]

Yeah deflection is definitely a high risk/high reward mechanic...

[Mr Bakaboy]

Know it's old but curious. Anybody that uses deflection is it just me or does it seem to work better in a 3d game like Soul Calibur? It's like I had a security blanket in 8 way run (though I'm sure a bad one) rather then throwing it out in Last Blade and once you whiff you are hung out to dry for the most part. I've tried to master the parry in Samurai Shodown V but never feel comfortable enough to use it. Complex motion + move that has a bad recovery time = me screwing up almost every time.

Just defend just seems to have no real downside. You either block at the last second and get the Just Defend or just plain block. The up side isn't as good if you connect, but I'd rather be cautious more times then not.

Sorry for raising the dead but this thread had me wondering.

[solidshark]

Thanks for resurrecting an almost year-old thread. Also reminds me that the correct term was actually Repel afterall. Using both repel and guard impact, guard impact seems better because using it has to be precise, but the animation doesn't last nearly as long as repel. However, per LB2's general speed of the game, it's not a terrible thing, but even more than any other parrying mechanic, you have to make sure you really know what's coming.

I think the last time you and me played Bakaboy, you punished me a lot when I tried to repel your attacks. I think some sort of feint mechanic for a LB3 would make things even more interesting in regards to repel, though it shouldn't be just a button press like repel.

[jinxhand]

Yeah the reward was small with Just Defend, you'd only get a sliver of life back, and I think you'd recover a few frames early, but possibly not enough to attack (or at least do what you wanted to do)... 

If you're talking deflecting in 2d vs 3d, you're right to some extent... It's easier in 3d fighters I believe because of the frames in general... Most 2d fighters have moves with faster frames, whereas in some 3d fighters, the frames are generally slower per sé. By far, Tekken had the fastest moves for a 3d fighter, with VF behind it; I think they're about the same now, since both games have gone through dramatic changes...

Deflecting/Repelling in LB was harder because the window was smaller than a 3d parry/deflect/repel... It looked slow because of the animation in general, but the whole animation wasn't the actual deflect itself, more like the small window to parry and then the recovery portion, which was shortened if you guessed right... I hope that made some sense...

[Mr Bakaboy]

Yeah, I thought of 3d advantages being of elimination on moves first (i.e. if you are at the side of an opponent you can sit there and look for a horizontal slash. Plus the timing is even slower since you are not facing directly in front giving you even more time to see the move coming.) I didn't see the fact the 3d is slower in general and that's a major advantage in the 1st place.

One last thing before I give up is for deflection/parry/repel is the risk worth the reward using it in Last Blade? My ex-roommate could use it on me here and there. That's the reason why I got used to masking my timing on when to attack, but does the deflection give you ample time to inflict big enough damage to warrant using it?

Like I said earlier I've been working on Samurai Shodown V's parry cause it can disarm the opponent. For that risk that's a huge reward. Especially if an opponent is not letting you get inside (close or medium range) like Charlotte and you have a more close in opponent like Ukyo. For that matter it's REALLY helpful when you are disarmed cause you can disarm your opponent. IMO for that game IF you can master the movement and really get good at the timing it CAN be better then Just Defend.

The one thing I will say that is good about Just Defend though is you can prolong your death. With using the TOP Bar at the end of your life and making all your blocks Just Defend, it can pull you from the brink of death to the point of having enough life to take a hit or 2 in no time at all. I remember when I played MOTW regularly that the matches seemed to last forever when you got 2 players who knew the other person's attacks pretty well.

[solidshark]

One last thing before I give up is for deflection/parry/repel is the risk worth the reward using it in Last Blade? My ex-roommate could use it on me here and there. That's the reason why I got used to masking my timing on when to attack, but does the deflection give you ample time to inflict big enough damage to warrant using it?

It's worth the reward. One of our old matches sticks out to me where a successful repel turned into a super to turn the tide of the match.

And I've seen some tournament footage from years ago where I think a speed player repeled and followed up with some tricky movements his opponents couldn't read.

[Mr Bakaboy]

One of these days we'll have to play again. Last Blade 2 this time I hope. I was so off balance on LB1 that I can barely recall anything about the matches. Might fire up LB2 on the MVS soon.