The I love or hate XII

[nilcam]

SNKP made a ballsy and, one might argue, not-so-good decision with the sprite process. I personally love the look and respect that it's a "true" sprite, meaning it's made of pixels that are placed dot-by-dot rather than vector graphics which are more similar to traditional animation. KOF looks like a video game. The problem is that too many players, especially new players, don't understand that and so the effort is wasted. Whenever I see someone ask why KOF is so pixelated I want to scream "because it's made of pixels!" That said, I think GG and KOF are tied for me from a design and graphical standpoint. BB falls far below both of the others.

[Homies Over Shotos]

You know what I love?  When you said "The game would still have zero content, crap netcode, tiny roster with majorly gimped characters." you know what they also call that?  Marvel VS Capcom 3.  That game has zero content, horrible netcode, and several gimped characters, yet that still goes on.

I don't like MvC3 (Gameplay Reasons), but MvC3 has way more content than 12. It has a full arcade mode with a final boss, a great training mode, a trial mode, challenge modes, the netcode is way better than KOF12, a good sized rooster for a team based fighter, and every single character in the game has a full, functional, complete, moveset with multiple supers. KOF12 has none of that.

How long did you play KOF XII?  Just curious.  And Garou?  That series is dead.  It was never a big seller and Mark of the Wolves bombed. And the only reason most people like that game is because it's the most capcom style newer game that SNK made.

1. I played KOF12 for exactly 2 days before I said "Fuck it, this game sucks". Then I went back to playing BlazBlue Calamity Trigger, a way more fun fighting game.
2. Garou may be dead, and never a big seller, but it was one of the few SNK fighters that was widely well received and still loved by many, not to mention it still see's competitive play alongside 98 and 2k2.
3. I don't think it's because the game is "Capcom Style" (Wtf is Capcom style about running, hops, guard cancels, break moves, feint cancels, etc?), but rather because it managed to create a bunch of new cool characters and had great gameplay sub-systems, solid controls, etc.

drawing twenty HD sprites took a long ass time.

Uhhh... KOF12/13's sprites atre not high definition. They never were. They are the same resolution as Guilty Gear X sprites.

Ok, after reading your blunt force stupidity, I think I can answer you.

Anyone that says Capcom's netcode in Marvel OR Street Fighter 4 is decent should have NO say in netcode PERIOD.

Marvel VS Capcom 3 has horrendous netcode.  KOF XII's netcode is better than it.  That's how bad MvC3's netcode is.  It's ass to the ass of the ass by the ass and from the ass.  If I could name MvC3's netcode, i would call it Return of Ass.  That's how assy it is.  Infact let's give it the last name McGee.  Assy McGee is the name of Marvel 3s netcode.

You don't like it from a gameplay standpoint?  Many other people didn't either.  A lot of people call it bare bones.  Same as KOF.  Same with the netcode.  Hell this new version might have a lot more in it.  But honestly, the gameplay of MvC3 turns me off so I'm not even going to talk about this.  Let's go to your other concerns.

You played a fighting game for two days than say it sucks.  How the hell do you get a good feel for a fighting game in two days.  How much of the game have you actually learned in those two days of playing KOF XII?  Very little.  You may have past game experience from previous KOF games and some of that knowledge does transfer over, but not nearly enough as this game is its own entity.  You still have all the jumping, the running, the rolling, but you don't know how the grabs work, how the new system makes grabs actually comboable now, how people can do more custom combos, how the charging CD adds a new layer of gameplay that gives even traditionally non comboable characters some form of combo, or the clash system and how it basically makes the projectile game not worth playing.  Or the blowback giving you a more risk reward than using a stock and pressing CD in the past.  There's completely different elements and I know for sure that you don't know how everything works, the advantages, the disadvantages, the different style of gameplay and all the other fun stuff because you barely even touched the damn thing.

Here let me play Blazblue for two days.  I didn't like it.  Now the game fucking sucks.  Did I give it a fair chance?  No.  That's exactly what you did.  So can I play any fighting game for two days and say it sucks and now it magically sucks?  Well according to your logic I sure as hell can.

when I say Capcom style, I meant that Mark of the Wolves was the most like a Capcom Fighting game compared to every other Garou game out there.  When you see Capcom fans being asked what SNK fighting game they like, they almost universally say mark of the wolves.  Never Real Bout, Never Special, never the original three.  It's always Mark of the Wolves.

When I first got KOF 12, disapointed?  At first yes.  After I got into it, I realized it was a flawed game but still quite fun.  Funny thing is that so many people say how simple this game is and that it has nothing compared to past KOF games, but they don't even take any time to learn anything about it and then complain when they lose to Mature, Chin, Goro, Clark or any of the other "incomplete" characters.

[Xxenace]

You know what I love?  When you said "The game would still have zero content, crap netcode, tiny roster with majorly gimped characters." you know what they also call that?  Marvel VS Capcom 3.  That game has zero content, horrible netcode, and several gimped characters, yet that still goes on.

I don't like MvC3 (Gameplay Reasons), but MvC3 has way more content than 12. It has a full arcade mode with a final boss, a great training mode, a trial mode, challenge modes, the netcode is way better than KOF12, a good sized rooster for a team based fighter, and every single character in the game has a full, functional, complete, moveset with multiple supers. KOF12 has none of that.

How long did you play KOF XII?  Just curious.  And Garou?  That series is dead.  It was never a big seller and Mark of the Wolves bombed. And the only reason most people like that game is because it's the most capcom style newer game that SNK made.

1. I played KOF12 for exactly 2 days before I said "Fuck it, this game sucks". Then I went back to playing BlazBlue Calamity Trigger, a way more fun fighting game.
2. Garou may be dead, and never a big seller, but it was one of the few SNK fighters that was widely well received and still loved by many, not to mention it still see's competitive play alongside 98 and 2k2.
3. I don't think it's because the game is "Capcom Style" (Wtf is Capcom style about running, hops, guard cancels, break moves, feint cancels, etc?), but rather because it managed to create a bunch of new cool characters and had great gameplay sub-systems, solid controls, etc.

drawing twenty HD sprites took a long ass time.

Uhhh... KOF12/13's sprites atre not high definition. They never were. They are the same resolution as Guilty Gear X sprites.

Ok, after reading your blunt force stupidity, I think I can answer you.

Anyone that says Capcom's netcode in Marvel OR Street Fighter 4 is decent should have NO say in netcode PERIOD.

Marvel VS Capcom 3 has horrendous netcode.  KOF XII's netcode is better than it.  That's how bad MvC3's netcode is.  It's ass to the ass of the ass by the ass and from the ass.  If I could name MvC3's netcode, i would call it Return of Ass.  That's how assy it is.  Infact let's give it the last name McGee.  Assy McGee is the name of Marvel 3s netcode.

You don't like it from a gameplay standpoint?  Many other people didn't either.  A lot of people call it bare bones.  Same as KOF.  Same with the netcode.  Hell this new version might have a lot more in it.  But honestly, the gameplay of MvC3 turns me off so I'm not even going to talk about this.  Let's go to your other concerns.

You played a fighting game for two days than say it sucks.  How the hell do you get a good feel for a fighting game in two days.  How much of the game have you actually learned in those two days of playing KOF XII?  Very little.  You may have past game experience from previous KOF games and some of that knowledge does transfer over, but not nearly enough as this game is its own entity.  You still have all the jumping, the running, the rolling, but you don't know how the grabs work, how the new system makes grabs actually comboable now, how people can do more custom combos, how the charging CD adds a new layer of gameplay that gives even traditionally non comboable characters some form of combo, or the clash system and how it basically makes the projectile game not worth playing.  Or the blowback giving you a more risk reward than using a stock and pressing CD in the past.  There's completely different elements and I know for sure that you don't know how everything works, the advantages, the disadvantages, the different style of gameplay and all the other fun stuff because you barely even touched the damn thing.

Here let me play Blazblue for two days.  I didn't like it.  Now the game fucking sucks.  Did I give it a fair chance?  No.  That's exactly what you did.  So can I play any fighting game for two days and say it sucks and now it magically sucks?  Well according to your logic I sure as hell can.

when I say Capcom style, I meant that Mark of the Wolves was the most like a Capcom Fighting game compared to every other Garou game out there.  When you see Capcom fans being asked what SNK fighting game they like, they almost universally say mark of the wolves.  Never Real Bout, Never Special, never the original three.  It's always Mark of the Wolves.

When I first got KOF 12, disapointed?  At first yes.  After I got into it, I realized it was a flawed game but still quite fun.  Funny thing is that so many people say how simple this game is and that it has nothing compared to past KOF games, but they don't even take any time to learn anything about it and then complain when they lose to Mature, Chin, Goro, Clark or any of the other "incomplete" characters.

i totally agree with you

also dont lump assy McGee with mvc 3 that show is awesome

[KBlackNoah]

@Desmond & nilcam

Code Select Expand

Ok, after reading your blunt force stupidity, I think I can answer you.

This is called disrespectful.

Marvel VS Capcom 3 has horrendous netcode.  KOF XII's netcode is better than it.

LMAO.@Desmond, nilcam ..etc - really, if i say this guy is sick in the head is it disrespectful or fact?

This is the 10th time i say it

I am willing to demonstrate through video footage the ssf4 & mvc 3 online compared with XII i just need someone from europe maybe Musolini or Shiranui.KOF XII is UNPLAYABLE BECAUSE OF THE IMPUT LAG (that's why there is no one playing it - FACT) - or better do it yourselves and show us footage of you online pressing the buttons next to the screen.

[desmond_kof]

better do it yourselves and show us footage of you online pressing the buttons next to the screen.

Easy. Nilcam, you down?

[Shiranui_ninja]

I think if SNK spent less time trying to shade their sprites at such a ridiculous level and go for something a bit more simple and less pixelated looking, they could of spent more time beefing up each characters arsenal of moves and giving them alot more animations overall.

O_O

This is the most unrespectful and annoying comment in this thread. More than KBlackNoah calling fanboys people who defend KOF XII... Yes, Running Wild, and SNKP could kept doing KOFs with the same shit graphics of 2002UM. That could meant lots of more characters, 20 moves per character and about 8 or 9 Dms... ¬_¬

Ok, people telling us now how SNKP should do THEIR OWN game... Time to leave this topic.

I personally love the look and respect that it's a "true" sprite, meaning it's made of pixels that are placed dot-by-dot rather than vector graphics which are more similar to traditional animation. KOF looks like a video game. The problem is that too many players, especially new players, don't understand that and so the effort is wasted. Whenever I see someone ask why KOF is so pixelated I want to scream "because it's made of pixels!"

You are speaking the true. I feel sad (and upset) when somebody is not able to see KOF graphics beautyness and the love that has been putted on it, and say such a things like Running Wild said... But I just realized time ago that some will never understand it. And I just gave up. Is too much frustrating

[nilcam]

I don't have a good video recorder. Do you? I have a point and shoot that can get the job done. If we can work out the logistics, I'm down.

Actually some of the combos you did in our game prove that the game was pretty lagless.

[KBlackNoah]

just  a web cam or something it doesn't matter just show us the screen and you pressing buttons next to it just to see that beautiful imput lag
I am willing to do it right now if shiranui is available and give you a video in 15 min

[Shiranui_ninja]

just  a web cam or something it doesn't matter just show us the screen and you pressing buttons next to it just to see that beautiful imput lag
I am willing to do it right now if shiranui is available and give you a video in 15 min

I'm here. At the same time I would like to prove that MvC3 online SUCKS too, but I sold that game long time ago.  And I should argue that online depends A LOT of your conexion. Maybe nilcam has an excelent online conexion. Mine sucks... (I will change it in september, but for now is horrible). On the other hand, I have the feeling now that KBN is arguing that KOF XII sucks because of its online. And, even of course is something that could sink a game, is not a good argument when we talk about good or bad game, as game itself, I mean.

Hello? Ok, I'm going to sleep. It's 3.30 AM here... We could do that record tomorrow

[Xxenace]

cant wait to see how this turns out

[Running Wild]

Ok, after reading your blunt force stupidity, I think I can answer you.

Anyone that says Capcom's netcode in Marvel OR Street Fighter 4 is decent should have NO say in netcode PERIOD.

Marvel and SF4's netcode is at least playable. I rarely have laggy matches in either game, especially in SF4, plays flawlessly for me.

Even MK's netcode is better than KOF12's. I can play my buddy all the way from Texas in MK, no problems. And that game is supposed to have shit netcode.

You played a fighting game for two days than say it sucks.  How the hell do you get a good feel for a fighting game in two days.  How much of the game have you actually learned in those two days of playing KOF XII?  Very little.

Two days was all it took for me to get bored of the game because there is nothing to do and the fighting is extremely boring as hell, made worse by the horrible netcode. My local offline scene had no interest in the game because it was so bad. There was only 1 player I could play with online without any input lag, and it just got boring because this game lacks the technical depth of previous KOF games. Nothing to learn in this game. You learn a damaging critical counter you'll never use. What else is there? The game is barebones as hell and has absolutely nothing to offer KOF fans that played 98, 2k2, XI, etc. The new gameplay features like the clashing, critical counters, guard attack, all of them are terribly flawed, stupid gimmicks, and horribly implemented. Why do you think they were all taken out of 13? Because nobody liked that shit.

13 is everything 12 should of been.

Nuff said.

12 should of never of been released.

Now get over yourself. You're making yourself look like a fanatical SNK fanboy defending this crap game.

This is the most unrespectful and annoying comment in this thread. More than KBlackNoah calling fanboys people who defend KOF XII... Yes, Running Wild, and SNKP could kept doing KOFs with the same shit graphics of 2002UM. That could meant lots of more characters, 20 moves per character and about 8 or 9 Dms... ¬_¬

Run that back.

I never said SNK should keep using the same old graphics.

I'm saying that should of taken it easy with that shading style on the sprites. They use way too big of a color palette. They spend so much time on the shading, they can't do more work on animating more moves and other animations, characters, etc.

If they used a simpler shading style while working at a higher resolution, they can still create sprites that look very nice (TRUE High Definition), animate nicely, and have a wider variety of moves.

[Shiranui_ninja]

When I see this two sprites together. Or these two



For me it's perfectly clear which game has better sprites. Yes, BB has bigger sprites, but that's all. (never realized before that Litchi looks like a fan made sprite).

Oh, and BB is not that HD game everybody is saying... Maybe pixels look smaller than 12's ones, but when I played 13 in Arcade Street, I had BBCS2 at my side, and when you see BB screen you do see PIXELS too. Because, as nilcam said, is made of pixels  (well, backgrounds don't, they are in 3D. I guess Running Wild thinks that XIII's backgrounds should be in 3D too, because in that way they could do more moves and more characters..)

[KBlackNoah]

Oki doky.

And i say kof xii is a bad game because there is nothing interesting to do in it (the mechanics and combo system are sf2 like hit hit special move for many characters, no normal hits link like in other kofs except for terry i think - it was plain old boring - even frionel mentioned in that interview that he had with orochinagi that and i quote "When they were working on XII, which wasn’t finished, they released it because there were commercial issues at stake with another game company resurrecting a huge fighting game saga (which I forget the name of  ). he was talking about sf4 and how playmore wanted to make some quick cash"), and most characters are a joke (just take a look at the strategy guide for it and you will laugh your ass off, not because of those who made it but because they tried so hard to make a guide after this pile of shit ).it would have had a longer life if the online was at least decent.If it had at least MVC3 netcode (which is playable and 1 out of 3 matches is flawless for me, i think is because many people have garbage wireless ) there would have been people online.
Also i played yesterday ssf4 with shiranui and he had like 1 bar and we had decent games.There was some lag..strangely just at the end of the round or game, in game rarely.

[desmond_kof]

I don't have a good video recorder. Do you? I have a point and shoot that can get the job done. If we can work out the logistics, I'm down.

Actually some of the combos you did in our game prove that the game was pretty lagless.

I will just use my flip camera to show myself pressing the buttons and the screen, and I will record a direct input into my capture card. If you can show yourself pressing the buttons and screen too, that will work. Wanna do this sometime this upcoming week? Maybe tomorrow?

Also, me and Nilcam has very so-so broadband connections too, we can even post up our download and upload speeds.

[nilcam]

The lag seems to be related to connection speeds. Both Desmond and I have similar connections(16 down/4 up).

Desmond, I'm available tomorrow after 5:30pm.