Dream Cancel Forum
King of Fighters XIII => Character Discussion => Duo Lon => Topic started by: nilcam on October 27, 2010, 05:28:12 AM
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(http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af171/dreamcancel/kofxiii/duo.gif)
Notation
;a = Light Punch
;b = Light Kick
;c = Strong Punch
;d = Strong Kick
* = EX version possible
Throw
;fd / ;bk + ;c / ;d
Command Moves
;fd + ;a (ground or air) = Genmu Ken *
;fd + ;b (ground or air) = Genmu Kyaku *
Special Moves
;qcf + ;b / ;d = Hike Kyaku Zen *
;qcb + ;b / ;d = Hike Kyaku Ushiro *
;qcb + ;a / ;c = Juon Shikon *
;qcf + ;a / ;c (x3) = Suteki Juryu *
Desperation Moves
;qcb ;hcf + ;a / ;c = Genmu Bakko Shikon
Neomax
;hcb x 2 + ;a ;c = Juon Ko Ha
Duo Lon's Wiki entry (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Duo_Lon_(XIII)).
Console changes:
*Hit stun on EX f.A is adjusted. It is possible to combo with a strong attack or qcb.A after EX f.A.
*EX rekka can be cancelled with a special or greater
*fb frames have been adjusted. It is now easier to include the weak version in attacks strings and combos as it is faster.
*f.B can be cancelled by super or greater
-Damage adjusted on NM from 400 to 480
Yamamoto:
f.B, aside from one shot cancels, the following is also possible: f.A>qcb.B>f.B>super ,so a f.A intitiated hit confirm combo. His fb is now easier to leave on the screen so coordinate attacks with it on the screen.
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EDIT: -Kane317
Hijacking Zabel's post to list a bunch of links of competent Duo Lon players. Personally, I found studying these videos very helpful when trying to learn this bizarre character. Some of them are actual matches, and some of links of specific points in a match, basically points of interests like cool setups and so forth. All of the links are have all been posted before but most of them are in lost in the video thread or in this very thread so I felt it more useful to compile them together. Some matches are very amazing and some still need to be sorted thru so this is a work in progress.
インフィニティ (Infinity)'s Duo Lon
1.2011 02-26 KOF XIII(Ver1.1) KCE公開動画 その264 アニメ杯 Part2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Um00779R6c#ws)
2.2011 02-26 KOF XIII(Ver1.1) KCE公開動画 その264 アニメ杯 Part3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hl2HEVTgHeU#)
3.2011 02-26 KOF XIII(Ver1.1) KCE公開動画 その264 アニメ杯 Part6 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1ZA5Pht-Nk#)
4.2011 02-26 KOF XIII(Ver1.1) KCE公開動画 その268 アニメ杯 Part7 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2g3KnBl5wjI#)
5.2011-05-22 KOF XIII KCE公開動画 その281第2回アニメ杯1-4 (http://youtu.be/ecoQy7my6UA?t=1m33s) Pretty tricky in confusing opponent
Tenka’s DuoLon
1.2011 02-26 KOF XIII(Ver1.1) KCE公開動画 その271 アニメ杯 Part10 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mY3lVIFKv0Q#)
2.2011 02-26 KOF XIII(Ver1.1) KCE公開動画 その271 アニメ杯 Part10 (http://youtu.be/mY3lVIFKv0Q?t=5m37s) Cool setup
3.2011 04-24 KOF XIII カーニバル 大会動画-part8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBd33Txriyw#ws)
4.2011-05-22 KOF XIII KCE公開動画 その281第2回アニメ杯1-4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecoQy7my6UA#) Cool mixup
No.17 (Kunio)’s DuoLon
1.No.17 vs Mr Kof (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QkI6_zYa_k#)
2.AA 4/9/11 Part 9 - Reynald vs Kunio (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NP6OGegdUXQ#ws)
3.CMD.Duc vs No.17 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mw0Fb8AiiTI#ws)
4.No.17 vs Pepe (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SYvV-cmPL4#)
5.Romance vs No.17 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SYvV-cmPL4#)
U-Rashia (Uラシア)
1.No.3 a-cho KOF13 1on1大会終了後 野試合 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z09_fM1kgyE#ws)
2.KOF XIII ふわふわ対戦 Round5 Uラシア vs とも@KP (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNlt6fgzerA#ws)
3.KOF XIII ふわふわ対戦 Round6 Uラシア vs SHIMA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6HwkUTrtFE#ws)
4.KOF XIII ふわふわ対戦 Round7 Uラシア vs SHIMA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atp-xXJGQKs#ws)
Bala’s DuoLon
1.Bala vs Pepe (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SYvV-cmPL4#)
Need to sort thru:
1.KOF13 (KOF XIII)1on1大会(2010.11.28) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BISWiMl0caI#)
2.2010 1127 新宿カーニバル KOF XIII Ratio March Part2-2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-4-nM5Vef0#ws)
3.No.1 a-cho KOF13 1on1大会終了後 野試合 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuqQauqsSTQ#ws)
4.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuqQauqsSTQ#t=13m34 (http://youtu.be/UuqQauqsSTQ?t=13m34s)
5.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuqQauqsSTQ#t=9m03 (http://youtu.be/UuqQauqsSTQ?t=9m3s)
6.KOF13 Combo video - Ash/Elizabeth/Duo Lon/Shen Woo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wug_FR9UDtc#ws)
7.KOF XIII KCE公開動画 その242 まったり対戦1-2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkwVDRPxXmQ#)
8.KOF XIII KCE公開動画 その243 まったり対戦2-1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcIzUANLIRg#)
9. NEW! No.1 a-cho KOF合同大会 第3回カッザガーデン「KOF13」終了後 野試合 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OB_epQNy9Lg#ws)(7m30s) <--Another basic setup into HD.
10. NEW! No.1 a-cho KOF合同大会 第3回カッザガーデン「KOF13」終了後 野試合 (http://youtu.be/OB_epQNy9Lg?t=9m30s) (9m30s) <--Similar setup but you can see him clearly walking forward to make the hop B --> air.f+B connect.
11.2011-08-15 KOF XIII(Ver1.1) 8/15 地域対抗戦 【前編】 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLTnKBFaT2s#) <-- Use of vertical C as an anti air...
Someone who can write Japanese please type up his name!
1.2011-05-22 KOF XIII KCE公開動画 その289第2回アニメ杯2-4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUwGgGl_8TU#)
Another mystery "Ash, Athena and Duo Lon" player
1.のほほんと野試合 KOF13編 No.05-① (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rg4W2AwsQY8#ws)
2.のほほんと野試合 KOF13編 No.05-② (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbp3Dq_P6ZY#ws)
3.のほほんと野試合 KOF13編 No.03 (http://youtu.be/_co66AR5Yp4?t=6m32s) One of the few times seeing a j.B --> air.f+B --> HD
4.のほほんと野試合 KOF13編 No.05-③ (http://youtu.be/FjnaIv4_130?t=10m6s) A semi different HD combo ender
Duo Lon setups and a new corner HD variation for DL
KOF XIII 実用コンボ動画集 PART2 (http://youtu.be/pr2wLHuvUi4?t=2m40s)
KOF XIII 実用コンボ動画集 PART4 (http://youtu.be/PndqRE10eFw?t=1m36s)
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Couple quick questions
What are the properties of Lon's EX J. Genmu Ken & Genmu Kyaku? Any invincibility, extra hitstun, crossup potential or anything?
How fast is his Juon Ko Ha?
And how easy is it to fake his whiff St. C into crossup Suteki Juryu or is it just not possible?
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if i'm not mistaken, his neomax is a command grab. meaning, instant.
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it is?
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I heard it was a counter move. Dunno.
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Duolon's NM is a command throw.
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A couple questions:
1. Does Duo-Lon have any cross-up?
2. If you combo into his air Genmu Kyaku from another air normal, does it still need to be blocked high?
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Air Genma Kyaku always hit mid, regardless of whether it was comboed or not.
Normal Genma Kyaku and Air Genma Kyaku should probably be listed as different moves, since their hit detection, damage and EX properties are different.
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Technically, Genmu Ken and Genmu Kyaku aren't command moves either even though they act like they are. Even the Target Action mode counts them as Special Moves and EX Special Moves whenever I play Duolon in single player.
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Wanted to discuss Duo's BnB
AFIK its
cr ;a - cr ;a - Suteki Juryu (Rekka x3) - dash (forgot which one it is) - ;a (the last ;a resets)
You can see this player use it constantly in this video, and when I picked him up it seems to be his only real combo. I could be mistaken though because I haven't gone to the lab with him yet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjNQs-5SMHA
You can see how the dash cancel at the end sets Duo for more pressure, resets, and mix ups and can also be used as an end to a blockstring . I really want to know if he has any cross-ups or solid overheads before I go down to AI again ^0^
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Some ground options I know:
;dn ;b (x2), ;dn ;df ;fd ;a or ;c (x3), ;dn ;df ;fd ;b, ;a (reset)
;dn ;b (x2), ;a, ;fd ;a
Air options:
normal/super jump, ( ;b, ;fd ;b)
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Air options:
in air, ( ;b, ;fd ;b)
Specifically it has to be j.B or hyper j.B. The hop B versions don't cancel. I'm no longer sure, I need to test this. UPDATE: All of his 4 jumps cancel (non-D of course).
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thanks so I got the bnb right, but I didnt know that air combo. Ive seen his stretched fist and shadow kick thing combo as well, not to sure if you can combo that into DM as well.
;fd ;a - ;fd ;b - DM ????
might take a trip this weekend if I'm not busy
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I've seen his ;fd ;a combo into a DM but I'm not sure if
it's a super cancel or not.
Comboing it into ;dn ;df ;fd ;a or ;c costs half a drive though. Apparently it doesn't when it's canceled from a normal. For example: ;dn ;b, ;a, ;fd ;a, ;dn ;df ;fd ;c (3x) will combo without using any drives.
Now that I've been studying Genmu Ken more closely, I think it really is a special attack that acts like a cancelable command move when canceled from a normal. Otherwise, you'll need drives to cancel either to or from his rekka. Probably the same with Genmu Kyaku. I do wonder if it's the same with his EX version though.
Oh and it seems you can cancel ;dn ;db ;bk ;b to ;fd ;b
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Duo Lon has been a favorite from the new characters but i really miss the hard punch stomp move...regardless can't wait to ''dizzy play'' with him
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Just added these to the wiki page
=Combos=
==No Drive Gauge==
===No Power Gauge===
*[cr.B, cr.A / st.C, f+A], (qcf+P)x3, qcf+K, st.C/D (reset)
===1 Power Gauges===
*j.CD, f+AC in air
*[cr.B, cr.A / st.C, f+A], qcb hcf+P
===2 Power Gauges===
*[cr.B, cr.A / st.C, f+A], (qcf+P)x3, qcf+K, qcb hcf+AC (http://youtu.be/atp-xXJGQKs?t=6m53s)
==50% Drive Gauge==
===1 Power Gauge===
*[cr.B, cr.A / st.C, f+A], (qcf+P)x2, (DC) f+AC, cr.A, st.C, (qcf+P)x3
*[cr.B, cr.A / st.C, f+A], (qcf+P)x2, (DC) (qcf+AC)x3, qcf+D, CD
'''Corner'''
*[cr.B, cr.A / st.C, f+A], (qcf+P)x3, (DC) qcb+P, qcb hcf+P (http://youtu.be/atp-xXJGQKs?t=12m12s)
===2 Power Gauges===
*[cr.B, cr.A / st.C, f+A], (qcf+P)x2, (DC) (qcf+AC)x3, qcf+D, qcb hcf+P
*f+BD, (DC) qcb hcf+P
===3 Power Gauges===
*[cr.B, cr.A / st.C, f+A], (qcf+P)x2, (DC) (qcf+AC)x3, qcf+D, qcb hcf+AC
*f+BD, qcb hcf+AC
==HD Combos==
'''NOTE: All combos listed below start with st/cr.X or anything that properly linksinto the rest of the combo'''
'''Legend'''
① = [(qcf+P)x2, (HDC) f+A]*N
===1 Power Gauge===
*st.C, f+A, ①, (qcf+P)x2, (DC) qcb+P (HD end), qcb hcf+P (http://youtu.be/UuqQauqsSTQ?t=9m48s)
===2 Power Gauges===
*st.C, f+A, ①, (qcf+P)x3, (DC) qcf+D (HD end), qcb hcf+AC
===3 Power Gauges===
*st.C, f+A, ①, (qcf+P)x3, (MC) hcbx2+AC
===4 Power Gauges===
*st.C, f+A, ①, (qcf+P)x2, (SC) qcb hcf+P, (MC) hcbx2+AC
===5 Power Gauges===
*st.C, f+A, ①, (qcf+P)x2, (SC) qcb hcf+AC, (MC) hcbx2+AC
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MAINED!!! :D
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MAINED!!! :D
I tried learning him again yesterday and I failed horribly (maybe it was coz Metaphysics and Ash were busy pummeling me haha). He theoretically suits my zoning style but his normals are still bizzare to me. I'll give him more time hehe.
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UPDATE: Since I'm trying to learn him, this video has helped me (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkwVDRPxXmQ) and so has this one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcIzUANLIRg), as these guys are decent with Duolon.
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need some duo help, some things not listed.
can duo cancel any of his air attacks into his air special/command move? could somebody help me with this combo and how it could be possible and what the numbers are?
jump attack (pref hard if possible) cancelled into air special move, standing or crouching C, f+A, rekka x 3, ex forward + BD, jump attack (cd if possible), dm, cancel into nm.
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need some duo help, some things not listed.
can duo cancel any of his air attacks into his air special/command move? could somebody help me with this combo and how it could be possible and what the numbers are?
jump attack (pref hard if possible) cancelled into air special move, standing or crouching C, f+A, rekka x 3, ex forward + BD, jump attack (cd if possible), dm, cancel into nm.
i'll test this on thursday, though there are a lot of things in this combo that i think don't work. first off, i'm not sure if air genma kyaku chains off a jump attack (i'm pretty sure i've seen it before, but i'll test just to make sure). also, not sure how exactly EX genma kyaku hits off of the rekka. i'm pretty sure CD attacks never aerial reset for a juggle unless it's CH or you use a move that has "juggle anywhere" properties. lastly, Max Cancels are only available in HD mode, so if you really want the DM>NM in there somewhere, an HD activation would be important (probably after the s.C)
edit: apparently the wiki says all air normals are cancellable except j.D, so i'll try j.C
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thanx a lot. also, cant you cancel into nm from a special move or from a dm without going into hd mode? (if not, thats retarded). also if im not mistaken i saw duo juggle with an air move that resetted the opponent (like lizzy) and still combod into his dm. so in short, the cobo would look like this:
jump ;c, ;fd ;b, land then st or cr. ;c, ;fd ;a, ;dn ;df ;fd ;c (x3), ;fd ;b ;d, jump ;c (?), ;dn ;db ;bk ;db ;dn ;df ;fd ;c, ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk ;a ;c.
thanx a lot btw.
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also, cant you cancel into nm from a special move or from a dm without going into hd mode? (if not, thats retarded).
You have to be in HD mode in order to cancel into your NeoMax from anything other than a normal.
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damn man, that really sucks. 2 things i personally owuld have liked to see differently in this kof, normal supercanceling not using any dc bar, and if you got a full dc bar being able to combo into your nm from special moves and ex/dm's without going into hd mode. thanx for the info anyway.
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also if im not mistaken i saw duo juggle with an air move that resetted the opponent (like lizzy) and still combod into his dm.
the only time i've personally seen the DM in a juggle combo is after rekka x3> (DC) fireball> DM (corner only). even then, i think it's still a normal juggle rather than a reset. i'd have to see the video to get a better idea of what you mean.
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thats the problem, with all the amount of vids released recently i really wouldnt know in which vid i saw it. its def a newer vid, as i saw it today (either kusanagistyle vid or something else posted this day or yesterday). anyway, it was exactly like lizzy;s air reset combod into dm. duo can do that shit too.
which brings me to that combo i was asking about. if you need to be in hd mode, after the ;fd ;b ;d, when going for the air normal to juggle into the dm, it should be possible to jump, go into bc mode, hit the air attack (whichever one it was, really dont remember), juggle with dm, cancel into nm. k does these sort of air hd activation into combos all the time, i guess duo should be able to do as well.
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edit: apparently the wiki says all air normals are cancellable except j.D, so i'll try j.C
Yup, that's correct; everything cancels except j.D. In actuality, it's harder to get it to combo than it sounds but that might be me being retarded, they all cancel coz I tested it the other night. What I do need to test Fatacon, is if it cancels off hops and hyper hops as well because it might be like Maxima where they don't allow hops to cancel (Mai too).
As for Musolini's questions, I'm just starting to learn him so I haven't had much time to test him out. This is the first year of me learning him as I didn't really play him in the older ones.
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As for Musolini's questions, I'm just starting to learn him so I haven't had much time to test him out. This is the first year of me learning him as I didn't really play him in the older ones.
i'm the same way. i didnt' really play him in past installments. i picked him up about 2 weeks ago just to try something different and he's pretty fun. i ended up using him all day last friday. haven't quite picked up his nuances yet, especially since his pressure is a little different than that of other characters.
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It also appears that his DM is fast enough to connect after a j.CD (counter only) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atp-xXJGQKs#t=7m44). Cool. EDIT: I linked some vids for the combos listed above.
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you happen to find out which one if any of his air button can reset a character like lizzy and then juggle with his dm (also like lizzy)?
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Duo Lon really has that ghost thing going on in this game. Is he a necromancer?
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nah, that spot is reserved for ron.
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Duo Lon really has that ghost thing going on in this game. Is he a necromancer?
http://snk.wikia.com/wiki/Duo_Lon
suggestion: maybe we should have a KOF lore section. compared to most other fighting games, the characters have a long history and newer fans are generally inquisitive about the story arcs and the characters' roles over the years. obviously, it's not really gameplay related, but there's the pao pao cafe section anyway so... plus it keeps the character threads clean for gameplay discussion.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5JZQV6qVEQ
Duo vs K' match-up right here, U-Rashia is a beast.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5JZQV6qVEQ
Duo vs K' match-up right here, U-Rashia is a beast.
Heck yeah! He's pretty in-yo-face, pwned the K', love his style! EDIT: Just learned that his f.A combos into his f.B (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5JZQV6qVEQ#t=5m03). I don't know if you can combo something before the f.A for this particular chain/combo to work.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5JZQV6qVEQ
Duo vs K' match-up right here, U-Rashia is a beast.
Heck yeah! He's pretty in-yo-face, pwned the K', love his style! EDIT: Just learned that his f.A combos into his f.B (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5JZQV6qVEQ#t=5m03). I don't know if you can combo something before the f.A for this particular chain/combo to work.
It's a free chain (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuqQauqsSTQ&t=9m10s) EDIT: You just have to cancel the f+A into qcb+K into f+B somewhat quickly -Kane317
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It's a free chain (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuqQauqsSTQ&t=9m10s)
Very cool. There's an interesting attack string here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuqQauqsSTQ&#t=13m33).
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EX fwd B+D spike thingy is really good to those who intend to run away and jump backwards. U-Raisha made good use of that move to prevent his opponent from running away from him. You can use that move as a anti air as well if you have good spacing from your opponent too.
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EX fwd B+D spike thingy is really good to those who intend to run away and jump backwards. U-Raisha made good use of that move to prevent his opponent from running away from him. You can use that move as a anti air as well if you have good spacing from your opponent too.
Welcome to DC ken_garou, when you get a chance introduce yourself here (http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?board=9.0).
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Thanks Kane317. Anyway I want to add something for Duolon which i think it has not been mention here.
If you were to do a qcb+ B (the teleport backward move thingy) , you can actually empty cancel it into fwd+B (his spike thingy). The good thing about this is there is no drive cancel required . And yes , you can choose to empty cancel it fast or slow, which is good for mind games, haha! This move is important if you want to maintain a good spacing away from your opponent.
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Thanks Kane317. Anyway I want to add something for Duolon which i think it has not been mention here.
If you were to do a qcb+ B (the teleport backward move thingy) , you can actually empty cancel it into fwd+B (his spike thingy). The good thing about this is there is no drive cancel required . And yes , you can choose to empty cancel it fast or slow, which is good for mind games, haha! This move is important if you want to maintain a good spacing away from your opponent.
I thought I already mentioned this. Oh wait, yeah I did mention this on the front page, though I wasn't able to say when to cancel it. Pretty nice to know that you can cancel into f+B all throughout the backwards teleport.
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jump ;c, ;fd ;b, land then st or cr. ;c, ;fd ;a, ;dn ;df ;fd ;c (x3), ;fd ;b ;d, jump ;c (?), ;dn ;db ;bk ;db ;dn ;df ;fd ;c, ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk ;fd ;df ;dn ;db ;bk ;a ;c.
so the first half works up until the f+BD. when you DC the f+BD, the opponent is too close, so you knock them away instead of toward you. f+BD has the weird property where it only hits them towards you from about 1 characters width away or farther; up close, it hits them away.
even using a standalone f+BD, the best reset i tried was a hop j.A since you land well before the opponent. either way, the DM doesn't catch them in the air like elizabeth's does (like i said before, i'd have to see the video) and they just land on the ground. i tried using the EX DM instead and it slides under the opponent every time, even if you wait until they're close to the ground.
in theory, a combo like this would have been nice, but i couldn't get it to work at all.
lastly, the best chain for j.f+B seems to be j.B. seems like you have to hit it deep rather than the tip of the j.B (which i would have preferred), unless my timing is just really bad.
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thanx for the info, might have been the counter air move to dm.
on the combo note, how about teleporting backwards, doing ex ;fd ;b ;d into dm. this way yu might have enough time to activate hd mode after the ex ;fd ;b ;d, do dm into nm. dont know if thisll connect though.
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as far as i know, you can't DC the backwards teleport from the rekkas, only the forward teleport. (confirmation?)
you'll probably have to ask Kane or Ash to test it for you, as i potentially may not have access to the game anymore.
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as far as i know, you can't DC the backwards teleport from the rekkas, only the forward teleport. (confirmation?)
Yeah, I've been curious about this too. qcb+K would be useful for mixups if it was possible, though if it's not possible to do a free cancel, then perhaps you could at least make a drive cancel?
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as far as i know, you can't DC the backwards teleport from the rekkas, only the forward teleport. (confirmation?)
Yeah, I've been curious about this too. qcb+K would be useful for mixups if it was possible, though if it's not possible to do a free cancel, then perhaps you could at least make a drive cancel?
On my to-test-list. UPDATE: His qcb+K does not free cancel off his rekkas.
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His forward A can be empty cancel into qcb B / D for keepaway and spacing. You can use forward A and empty cancel into qcf B / D to close in your opponent and continue on the offense. But of course use it sparingly. Or do fwd A and empty cancel to fwd+B , to make the opponent block. Mix up these tactics randomly to confuse your opponent.
But never do fwd A and empty cancel into qcb A / C smoke against any decent player who knows how to play kof 13 , they will simply jump in and give you a big fat combo!
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His forward A can be empty cancel into qcb B / D for keepaway and spacing. You can use forward A and empty cancel into qcf B / D to close in your opponent and continue on the offense. But of course use it sparingly. Or do fwd A and empty cancel to fwd+B , to make the opponent block. Mix up these tactics randomly to confuse your opponent.
But never do fwd A and empty cancel into qcb A / C smoke against any decent player who knows how to play kof 13 , they will simply jump in and give you a big fat combo!
Ken_garou, maybe you can help me out with this: I see DuoLon doing Fwd A into Fwd B as a 2 hit combo all the time but when I tried last night, it just doesn't cancel. Am I doing something wrong? Should I cancel Fwd A into qcb+B into Fwd B?
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Tested out some damages:
-s.C, f.A, Ex f.K, DM - 332
-s.C, f.A, DM - 288
-d.A, s.C, f.A, DM - 297
-s.C, f.A, Ex DM - 390
-d.A, s.C, f.A, Ex DM - 400
-qcf.A x3, qcf B, Ex DM - 367
-(Corner), qcf.A x3, [DC] qcb.A, DM - 296
-(Corner), qcf.A x3, [DC] Ex qcb P [1hit], qcf.A x3 [1st and 3rd hits only], qcf B, DM - 322
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Sorry for late reply Kane, anyway that is correct , always cancel Fwd A into qcb+B into Fwd B in order for them to link . 100% percent confirm. You can also cancel Fwd A into qcb+B into EX Fwd B+D too.
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Sorry for late reply Kane, anyway that is correct , always cancel Fwd A into qcb+B into Fwd B in order for them to link . 100% percent confirm. You can also cancel Fwd A into qcb+B into EX Fwd B+D too.
Yup yup, I tested that out already, but thanks nonetheless ;)
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Wait, I just noticed... his foot is still crooked? o_O
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Apparently so.
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Wait, I just noticed... his foot is still crooked? o_O
Is there a particular reason his foot would have straightened out?
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I just checked, Duo Lon has the second lowest damage NeoMax in the game (WTF?). To make matters worst for me (since I'm learning DL), the lowest NM in the game is Chin's lol, at 378dmg, although his does allow follow ups. Does that mean DL's NM is technically the weakest in the game? Why SNKP?! I'm still crossing my fingers that there's something crazy about it that we haven't discovered which would explain the low damage. :/
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Yeah that Neomax damage is little like crazy but it is the only unblockable so called command grab of his. I see the experts use them sparingly against block happy opponents once in a while a least to get some damage.
Other than that offensively, he has to resort offensively(and abuse) with his limited block strings in order to guard crush turtlers. But frankly to say his block strings do very little impact on the opponent's guard bar as it will take quite a while to guard crush . But he doesn't have much choices due to his limited moves and mixups, therefore if somehow or another if the clock is ticking a few seconds before time out and your opponent is leading by a bit more health and starts blocking all the way ( even if his health is so much more depending on your judgement whether you want to conserve stocks or not for the next round) , just do it.
You have no other choice cuz if you were to do block strings or walk towards and throw him , it doesn't have much effect since he is in blocking mode and he has way more health than you. So do the neomax!
If it is your last character with a few seconds on the clock , don't hesitate to do the NEOMAX as this is the ONLY AVAILABLE option to do the maximum damage on a very short space of time against A VERY BLOCK HAPPY opponent .
Duolon is not a grappler nor he has a normal command grab of his own, yes you may complain that his NEOMAX is very useless on the damage scale, but you will be surprise that even the experts will be caught in it once in a while or from time to time.
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Yeah that Neomax damage is little like crazy but it is the only unblockable so called command grab of his. I see the experts use them sparingly against block happy opponents once in a while a least to get some damage.
Other than that offensively, he has to resort offensively(and abuse) with his limited block strings in order to guard crush turtlers. But frankly to say his block strings do very little impact on the opponent's guard bar as it will take quite a while to guard crush . But he doesn't have much choices due to his limited moves and mixups, therefore if somehow or another if the clock is ticking a few seconds before time out and your opponent is leading by a bit more health and starts blocking all the way ( even if his health is so much more depending on your judgement whether you want to conserve stocks or not for the next round) , just do it.
You have no other choice cuz if you were to do block strings or walk towards and throw him , it doesn't have much effect since he is in blocking mode and he has way more health than you. So do the neomax!
If it is your last character with a few seconds on the clock , don't hesitate to do the NEOMAX as this is the ONLY AVAILABLE option to do the maximum damage on a very short space of time against A VERY BLOCK HAPPY opponent .
Duolon is not a grappler nor he has a normal command grab of his own, yes you may complain that his NEOMAX is very useless on the damage scale, but you will be surprise that even the experts will be caught in it once in a while or from time to time.
I'm just bitter than Ash's NM is 480 at least. DL's should be 450 like EVERYONE else. On a side note, I know that you can follow up his NM, at least in the corner, with a j.f.AC but the timing is tight and the damage is crap for 4stocks total (air.f.AC does only 80 lol).
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Wait, I just noticed... his foot is still crooked? o_O
Is there a particular reason his foot would have straightened out?
Yeah. I thought that him having a crooked foot in 2003 was a glitch or something...
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cmon guys, are you serious? duo foot is like that cause thAS HIS STYLE. same way takumas neck isnt broekn, thats the way he just looks damnit.
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For those learning Duo Lon like myself (and Fatacon), I found this video helpful to setup the BnB combo we always see. The trick is he takes a step forward after the juggled s.A before hop B-->air f.B, I could never get the distance right until I payed attention to him stepping forward (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z09_fM1kgyE#t=4m36).
I should also make a note, the Duo Lon in the video is most definitely the same one from the page before and he's ON POINT throughout the match.
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For those learning Duo Lon like myself (and Fatacon), I found this video helpful to setup the BnB combo we always see. The trick is he takes a step forward after the juggled s.A before hop B-->air f.B, I could never get the distance right until I payed attention to him stepping forward (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z09_fM1kgyE#t=4m36).
I should also make a note, the Duo Lon in the video is most definitely the same one from the page before and he's ON POINT throughout the match.
i should try that setup next time. i also noticed in that same video (too lazy to timestamp it), during the round with shen, i never knew you could could go straight into EX super off a teleport after rekkas. pretty cool. i never used it outside of a corner combo lol
edit: i just realized a few posts up that Kane listed it lol
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For those learning Duo Lon like myself (and Fatacon), I found this video helpful to setup the BnB combo we always see. The trick is he takes a step forward after the juggled s.A before hop B-->air f.B, I could never get the distance right until I payed attention to him stepping forward (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z09_fM1kgyE#t=4m36).
I should also make a note, the Duo Lon in the video is most definitely the same one from the page before and he's ON POINT throughout the match.
i should try that setup next time. i also noticed in that same video (too lazy to timestamp it), during the round with shen, i never knew you could could go straight into EX super off a teleport after rekkas. pretty cool. i never used it outside of a corner combo lol
-qcf.A x3, qcf B, Ex DM - 367dmg
From above, =)
As for the aforementioned setup, I've found that it's more circumstantial I would like. Take last night's session for example, every time I teleported (B version) after connecting his rekkas, my s.A placed me on the same side whereas some days it would leave me crossing them up to the other side (I could have sworn I use qcf B everytime but I could be wrong). Also, when I do get the crossup, sometimes a hop would be just enough, and sometimes you'll need take a step being doing the hop b --> air.f.B which leads me to admire that Duo Lon player even more.
Admitingly I've never used DL in the older ones (outside of random selections) so maybe I just need to adjust better, but I'm slowly getting the hang of it although I still do the rekkas too fast lol (noob)--strangely I never had that problem with Kyo's old rekkas and '98 Iori's ones.
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every time I teleported (B version) after connecting his rekkas, my s.A placed me on the same side whereas some days it would leave me crossing them up to the other side (I could have sworn I use qcf+B everytime but I could be wrong).
i actually know exactly what you mean. i always use B teleport after rekkas and sometimes i can't tell what side i'm going to end up on. even if i do a jump-in followup after the s.A/c.A, i don't even know if it'll crossup or not until i see it. it's like i'm mixing myself up lol.
i also wish he had better air-to-air normals (i feel like his j.f+A isn't too reliable, maybe it's just me). he tends to lose air battles unless he's above the opponent.
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i also wish he had better air-to-air normals (i feel like his j.f+A isn't too reliable, maybe it's just me). he tends to lose air battles unless he's above the opponent.
j.C is awesome for air-to-air, and of course j.CD is as well.
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i also wish he had better air-to-air normals (i feel like his j.f+A isn't too reliable, maybe it's just me). he tends to lose air battles unless he's above the opponent.
j.C is awesome for air-to-air, and of course j.CD is as well.
is it really? if i j.CD and the opponent is the same height as me, i usually get CH cause of the downward hitbox.
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i also wish he had better air-to-air normals (i feel like his j.f+A isn't too reliable, maybe it's just me). he tends to lose air battles unless he's above the opponent.
j.C is awesome for air-to-air, and of course j.CD is as well.
is it really? if i j.CD and the opponent is the same height as me, i usually get CH cause of the downward hitbox.
Really, between his fast jumps and the high jump arc itself, I don't usually have that problem but then maybe I haven't had enough play time yet.
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What do you guys do for anti-airing? cr.C is pretty slow...
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What do you guys do for anti-airing? cr.C is pretty slow...
Yup, it's let me down more than it's helped me. I always end up eating a full combo coz I'm trying to anti air someone.
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well, to be honest, duo lon's whole gameplan revolves around his pressure game. with a lack of any real reversal (except maybe his EX teleport), he has nothing in his arsenal to get him out of pressure aside from universal tactics like GCCD/GCR. i feel like its pretty easy to get guard crushed as duo lon when i have no meter. so, you're gonna have to play your footsies well to keep them off of you while you try to make your way inside their defenses.
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w00t, another sick ass setup (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1Za51Qrgjc#t=16m48).
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Hey guys, after taking a little break I think it's time to hit KoF seriously again, this time with Duo! Time to lay on the questions.
After rekkas, I see people doing st.A, does that lead to mixup opportunities like I can teleport, or do a j.B into f.B for the overhead?
After rekka, is drive cancelling into f.BD a 50/50, can I choose which side I want to run to?
What are some block strings I can use with him? All I'm doing so far is just whatever into rekkas into qcf.B to cross up and stay fairly close to them.
People at the arcade I go to mentioned that a lot of Taiwanese players use Duo as their anchor, is this true and if it is why is that? I don't see how he'd make a good anchor char.
I'm just repeating this question cause I didn't find answers that were satisfactory to me, what do you use as anti airs? I usually use cr.C if I predict or if they do a normal jump I can react fast enough with anti air rekkas. What are your preferences?
That's a few questions to go by haha. I intend to test a lot of this stuff tomorrow but I'd like more experienced players to drop knowledge on me. Thanks in advance guys.
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Hey guys, after taking a little break I think it's time to hit KoF seriously again, this time with Duo! Time to lay on the questions.
After rekkas, I see people doing st.A, does that lead to mixup opportunities like I can teleport, or do a j.B into f.B for the overhead?
Correct, ppl like to do his rekkas into B teleport (qcf+B), s.A and then --> qcf+B into d.B OR hop B-->air.f+B OR B teleport into throw OR simple s.C into qcb+A for added pressure (safer for Duo Lon as well).
After rekka, is drive cancelling into f.BD a 50/50, can I choose which side I want to run to?
The thing I've observed with the limited time I've picked up Duo Lon is that the distancing is very circumstantial as the the rekkas leave you at different spots depending on where how far you were from the opponent when you started the combo (off a d.A, two d.As, s.C-->f.A etc...). Sometimes I'll qcf+B into a juggle s.A but I'll be on the same side, other times the teleport will cross them up.
However to answer you question, most likely you can control which side you'll be on by dashing. For example, if you do a j.CD into air.f+AC (it'll connect even if the j.CD isn't a "counter" and the air.f+AC is optional) you can dash underneath them or choose to stay on the same side. The j.CD into air.f+AC setup can be preceded by rekkas [DC], f+BD as seen here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1Za51Qrgjc#t=16m48).
What are some block strings I can use with him? All I'm doing so far is just whatever into rekkas into qcf.B to cross up and stay fairly close to them.
Beware of a blocked rekkas string; in the corner it's definitely punishable and if the opponent is savvy, even mid-screen they can throw you as you teleport past them (or command throw). I'm still learning him but as a block string I use: d.B, s.A, f+A, qcb+B, and of course you quickly cancel the qcb+B into f.B as a full block sting--just don't over do it as it's real easy to GCAB out and punish you.
Recently, courtesy of B.a.l.a/Armando from our recent tourney he showed us how useful his d.A--> qcf+A, pause, d.A -->... is (and I've been reading about it from day one from the Japanese BBS but I haven't seen it being utilized so well until that day).
People at the arcade I go to mentioned that a lot of Taiwanese players use Duo as their anchor, is this true and if it is why is that? I don't see how he'd make a good anchor char.
Personally, my DL is not strong enough to anchor my team, I usually put him first or second as he's a great battery character. He does not do enough damage in a short amount of time which is why I feel he's not suited for a clutch 5th round. The only damaging thing he can do is his NM really.
I'm just repeating this question cause I didn't find answers that were satisfactory to me, what do you use as anti airs? I usually use cr.C if I predict or if they do a normal jump I can react fast enough with anti air rekkas. What are your preferences?
I also use d.C (and I feel dirty but oh well) pre-emptively but I can't stress how slow the d.C comes out for how fast it looks. I've been snuffed out of it so many times and been punished big time. If I'm in the corner I always cancel the d.C into qcf+B teleport. That and j.CD is my preference of immediate anti-air since he's got an awesome j.CD (coupled with a speedy, albeit awkward trajectory, jump).
For zoning purposes, vertical jump.f+A works well along with f.A which keeps them firmly planted in the ground (tack on the f.B trick if you want).
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So after rekkas into B teleport, I do s.A then qcf+B into d.B/hop B->air.f+B, teleport B into throw, or whatever? I have hella options haha.
I'm talking about that specific setup where you [DC] into f+BD. The air attack is j.CD right? I couldn't get that to land when I was trying together. Are you saying any time I land a j.CD I get a free 50/50?
Thanks for the tips about the block strings. I only do the full rekka string outside of the corner. No one knows you can throw me out of the teleport yet haha.
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So after rekkas into B teleport, I do s.A then qcf+B into d.B/hop B->air.f+B, teleport B into throw, or whatever? I have hella options haha.
Yeah, I don't know if you meant teleport again (after s.A) into hop B--> air.f+B coz if go for the hop I don't do the second teleport. When I first learned him I was confused and I did rekkas-->B teleport-->s.A-->B teleport-->hop B-->air.f+B ...turns out you only teleport once and go for the hop B (becareful, anyone with a quick reversal like a dp can hit you before the hop connects).
I'm talking about that specific setup where you [DC] into f+BD. The air attack is j.CD right? I couldn't get that to land when I was trying together. Are you saying any time I land a j.CD I get a free 50/50?
Well technically it isn't a character specific setup, just easier for him. Did you see the video, that DL player executed the 50/50 perfectly, and yes, he used a j.CD. EDIT: I just realized he uses j.C instead which makes sense since j.CD will knock them too far (unless you cancel into air.f+AC).
I do a similar setup (sorry StolenHope heh), whenever I do a j.CD I cancel it into an air.f+BD, dash and go for mixups.
Thanks for the tips about the block strings. I only do the full rekka string outside of the corner. No one knows you can throw me out of the teleport yet haha.
Yeah, it sucks big time once they catch on =(
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With all the cool Duolons I'm seeing, I think I'll put him on my team!
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With all the cool Duolons I'm seeing, I think I'll put him on my team!
He's definitely an acquired taste, especially if you're used to him having a command throw. He's generally very low on damage (NM being second lowest) and it's not the easiest to do a lot of damage in a short amount of time.
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With all the cool Duolons I'm seeing, I think I'll put him on my team!
He's definitely an acquired taste, especially if you're used to him having a command throw. He's generally very low on damage (NM being second lowest) and it's not the easiest to do a lot of damage in a short amount of time.
I knew since 2003 that he deals low damage, but it doesn't matter to me. I'm not always looking for the characters that deal the most damage.
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With all the cool Duolons I'm seeing, I think I'll put him on my team!
He's definitely an acquired taste, especially if you're used to him having a command throw. He's generally very low on damage (NM being second lowest) and it's not the easiest to do a lot of damage in a short amount of time.
I knew since 2003 that he deals low damage, but it doesn't matter to me. I'm not always looking for the characters that deal the most damage.
2003 he was banned in many tournaments =P
In KOF XIII what makes him good is his high pressure games with still having the ability to zone with his far attacks. On the downside he has one of the least damage in combos.
Other characters can output large amounts of damage in 1 combo. But I believe a good duo lon player will be able to create more openings to do combos more often which can be similar to having high damage ouput.
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With all the cool Duolons I'm seeing, I think I'll put him on my team!
He's definitely an acquired taste, especially if you're used to him having a command throw. He's generally very low on damage (NM being second lowest) and it's not the easiest to do a lot of damage in a short amount of time.
I knew since 2003 that he deals low damage, but it doesn't matter to me. I'm not always looking for the characters that deal the most damage.
2003 he was banned in many tournaments =P
In KOF XIII what makes him good is his high pressure games with still having the ability to zone with his far attacks. On the downside he has one of the least damage in combos.
Other characters can output large amounts of damage in 1 combo. But I believe a good duo lon player will be able to create more openings to do combos more often which can be similar to having high damage ouput.
Wut?
There's been 2003 tournaments?
*fkees*
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Yeah, in my down time from playing I'm spending a bit of time researching more set ups for 50/50s and stuff like that. I'm not really doing a good job of it haha. The only one I have memorized is the rekkas into f.BD into j.C for the 50/50. Just to reiterate any j.Cd leads to a 50/50 as well correct?
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Just to reiterate any j.Cd leads to a 50/50 as well correct?
I stand corrected, any non-J.CD will work. In DL's case, it's because his air.f+AC rejuggles and "holds" him in place instead of knocking them away like a j.CD should.
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Examining Kunio's DL I've picked up a thing or two, can't wait till all the videos are uploaded.
-d.A, f.A, qcf+P x3 (first one whiffs) is still a safer bet than d.A, qcf x3+P. It does more damage, and easier to hit confirm, safer overall. You can always cancel into teleport (qcf/qcb+K) off a f.A but not off a qcf+P without drive canceling.
-From half a screen f+A into qcb+P is pretty safe and good pressure.
-On wake up, s.CD crosses up (whiffs) and so you can cancel it into his rekkas (qcf+Ps) <--nasty! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QkI6_zYa_k&NR=1#t=2m06).
-From full screen, hop air.f+A is a good air-to-air.
-Getting out of a sticky situation with the use of Ex qcf+P (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SYvV-cmPL4&NR=#t=6m06).
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So when you are waking up if you do s.CD it'll whiff but you end up on the other side? That is absolutely dirty. The ex Rekka tip might be helpful because my Duo is so trash once I'm in the corner.
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So when you are waking up if you do s.CD it'll whiff but you end up on the other side? That is absolutely dirty. The ex Rekka tip might be helpful because my Duo is so trash once I'm in the corner.
I added the link to my last post. Usually I link it to the exact time but I wanted to illustrate how he sets it up.
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Ah okay, I misunderstand what you said but it's still dirty haha. I'll try incorporating it into my game ASAP.
I don't think anyone at my school really comes here which is a shame because I'm learning so much. I think I'd have such a harder time if they knew all the tricks and set ups I'm going for without getting hit by it first.
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Two quick questions (hoping B.a.l.a or No.17 could share their knowledge and experience with DL).
1) Any practical uses for air.fwd+BD (air.6+BD)?
and
2) Is it worth doing fwd+AC (6+AC), down A (2A), standing C (5C) ...? Or is it better to save up for 2 stocks for the Ex DM?
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1) Any practical uses for air.fwd+BD (air.6+BD)?
I guess it doesn't need to use.
air.fwd+BD effects longer hit(bend) motion than air.fwd+B, but DL cannot do ground combo even if he uses air.fwd+BD right after short front jump and hits that means a middle detection.
2) Is it worth doing fwd+AC (6+AC), down A (2A), standing C (5C) ...? Or is it better to save up for 2 stocks for the Ex DM?
I think it's not effective.
About KOF13 system, it usually takes 5% less damage each hit count. If DL uses fwd+AC, he cannot deliver to a big damage.
It's better that uses Ex DM or other Ex SM. :)
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1) Any practical uses for air.fwd+BD (air.6+BD)?
I guess it doesn't need to use.
air.fwd+BD effects longer hit(bend) motion than air.fwd+B, but he DL cannot do ground combo even if he uses air.fwd+BD right after front jump and hits that means a middle detection.
2) Is it worth doing fwd+AC (6+AC), down A (2A), standing C (5C) ...? Or is it better to save up for 2 stocks for the Ex DM?
I think it's not effective.
About KOF13 system, it usually takes 5% less damage each hit count. If DL uses fwd+AC, he cannot deliver to a big damage.
It's better that uses Ex DM or other Ex SM. :)
1) I see, I didn't think it was worth it either.
2) Just as I expected.
Thank you so much, see you this weekend!
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Thank you so much, see you this weekend!
You're welcome! See you soon! :)
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Thank you so much, see you this weekend!
You're welcome! See you soon! :)
Another quick question: What is your combo of choice, non-corner, for 50% drive and 1 stock?
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Another quick question: What is your combo of choice, non-corner, for 50% drive and 1 stock?
I don't use drive and stock, because I use DL at 1st and want to keep them for 2nd.
But of course you can use DC combo.
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I decided to compile a list of videos to highlight great Duo Lon players which I feel would help anyone trying to learn him. Most of the links are scattered throughout the video thread and this thread itself and since most likely this post will disappear over the months, I listed everything on the second post on the first page (http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?topic=284.msg4463#msg4463). The idea is to eventually have this done to every character but one step at a time for now.
EDIT: Small tidbit - s.A has slightly more range than d.A but not by much.
EDIT2: Found a true follow up to his air.f+BD...another air.f+BD lol.
EDIT3: Turns out that his qcb+P projectile does have a slow and fast version (A and C respectively). The C version is actually great to setup mix when the opponent is down --> D teleport.
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After the Southtown tourney, and playing Duo Lon again, I realized I forgot so many things. I didn't remember the s.CD whiff crossup on the opponent's wakeup, the mixups after rekkas, or even that I didn't need to drive cancel to land an EX DM after rekkas. I'll probably try to stick with him for a while, since I enjoy his playstyle. Perhaps I'll fill in his wiki a little more with notes and whatnot like I did with the Leona and King pages.
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After the Southtown tourney, and playing Duo Lon again, I realized I forgot so many things. I didn't remember the s.CD whiff crossup on the opponent's wakeup, the mixups after rekkas, or even that I didn't need to drive cancel to land an EX DM after rekkas. I'll probably try to stick with him for a while, since I enjoy his playstyle. Perhaps I'll fill in his wiki a little more with notes and whatnot like I did with the Leona and King pages.
Usual disclaimer of me being a learning DL player as well so you can take the tidbit information with a grain of salt and you probably know most of this but I'll lend you whatever little DL experience I have:
- s.A seems to be the popular choice after the Rekkas since it seemingly setups the mix up of hop B --> air.f+B timing much easier. Otherwise use s.C for sightly more damage.
- Of course you mentioned it already, you don't need to [DC] into his Ex DM. Corner you just qcf+B then do Ex DM the normal direction; mid screen you qcf+B and do the Ex DM the crossup direction.
- A lot of times you're deep enough to do two d.Bs, d.A, rekkas so you use that for a good hit confirmation. Alternatively, d.B, d.A, f+A works wonders as well (just don't forget to return to neutral).
- Personally, I like the d.B, d.A, f+A, qcb+K~f+K as the combo of choice since it's safer. Change the f+K into Ex f+BD for some style points and setup your mixup.
- Speaking of which, when I do f+BD I usually follow up with j.C for mixup, j.CD-->f.AC for a more damaging variation mixup, or j.CD--> land --> qcb+C (not A) --> qcf+D --> combo. It's not a perfect setup but it's close enough to make your opponent have to jump or eat a combo from behind as your projectile hits from the other side at the same time.
- If the f.BD is landed from full screen you can do f.A (from where you are) into qcf+B or qcf+D. The light version will put you pretty much in the front and the strong version will drop in you in the back.
- Don't forget dash in normal throws as well. After the throw, qcf+B will drop you in the front and qcf+D will leave you in behind like before. Then you can also do the s.CD-wakeup-crossup-mixup.
- After a blocked d.A, do an Ex qcf+K and you should be right behind them and it's very hard for an opponent to react even with the little block stun that d.A has.
- Air-to-air j.C should be your choice of poison, sometimes the downward angle of the j.D makes you misses a lot of opportunities that you should have won the air battle; I noticed that against Ralf and against Andy.
- Don't forget Rekkas, [DC] f+BD (on last rekkas), hyper hop C, hyper jump D will land you perfectly for a crossup.
I'll add more if I catch anything else, otherwise your DL did real good man.
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Yes!! Kane 317 Duo Lon CHEAT SHEET!!
Page 6 final post
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s.A seems to be the popular choice after the Rekkas since it seemingly setups the mix up of hop B --> air.f+B timing much easier. Otherwise use s.C for sightly more damage.
s.C does more than s.D? I don't really remember off the top of my head, but I do know that I used s.D instinctively at times.
If the f.BD is landed from full screen you can do f.A (from where you are) into qcf+B or qcf+D. The light version will put you pretty much in the front and the strong version will drop in you in the back.
Is the f+A supposed to hit?
After a blocked d.A, do an Ex qcf+K and you should be right behind them and it's very hard for an opponent to react even with the little block stun that d.A has.
Oh ok, I mentioned this in one of my messages, asking if this was legit or not. It worked pretty well whenever I used it, granted it was used sparingly. Thanks for the confirmation on this one.
Air-to-air j.C should be your choice of poison, sometimes the downward angle of the j.D makes you misses a lot of opportunities that you should have won the air battle; I noticed that against Ralf and against Andy.
After rewatching my matches, I actually did notice it a lot, so thanks for bringing it to my attention. I guess I should keep the j.D for grounded opponents.
Two things I'd like to ask:
1) Isn't there a cross-under mixup from a juggle? Is it a CH air-to-air > j.f+AC > dash? I tried everything else but I couldn't get behind, so I'm thinking that's it?
2) I think I asked you before when Kunio was here, but I don't really remember. The wiki doesn't state any damage difference between A and C rekkas, so are there any height/distance property differences after the last hit? The reason why I ask is because after grounded combos using a f+A, I noticed that both you and Kunio both use A rekkas, in which the first hits whiffs. However, if you use C rekkas, all 3 hits connect. I was curious if A rekkas have any tactical advantage in this situation. Also, a difference in properties could affect the mixups, but thats only if there actually is any difference confirmed.
Without any actual proof and just from feeling it out, the A version comes out faster, but the C version has slightly more range. That's the only thing I can think of when differentiating the two.
Anyway, thanks for the tips and hopefully I get more playtime so I can try out more things.
Yes!! Kane 317 Duo Lon CHEAT SHEET!!
Page 6 final post
P.S. Where are my Ryo and Terry cheat sheets, meta? ;)
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I think I can answer some of this.
s.C does more than s.D? I don't really remember off the top of my head, but I do know that I used s.D instinctively at times.
The wiki says s.C and s.D deal the same damage so that leads me to think that Kane was talking about dealing more than s.A
Is the f+A supposed to hit?
I believe it should. The f+A should reset them into the perfect distance for the teleport mixup.
Two things I'd like to ask:
1) Isn't there a cross-under mixup from a juggle? Is it a CH air-to-air > j.f+AC > dash? I tried everything else but I couldn't get behind, so I'm thinking that's it?
I asked this exact same question before haha. Here's the video and Kane's explanation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1Za51Qrgjc (16:48)
However to answer you question, most likely you can control which side you'll be on by dashing. For example, if you do a j.CD into air.f+AC (it'll connect even if the j.CD isn't a "counter" and the air.f+AC is optional) you can dash underneath them or choose to stay on the same side. The j.CD into air.f+AC setup can be preceded by rekkas [DC], f+BD
2) I think I asked you before when Kunio was here, but I don't really remember. The wiki doesn't state any damage difference between A and C rekkas, so are there any height/distance property differences after the last hit? The reason why I ask is because after grounded combos using a f+A, I noticed that both you and Kunio both use A rekkas, in which the first hits whiffs. However, if you use C rekkas, all 3 hits connect. I was curious if A rekkas have any tactical advantage in this situation. Also, a difference in properties could affect the mixups, but thats only if there actually is any difference confirmed.
Without any actual proof and just from feeling it out, the A version comes out faster, but the C version has slightly more range. That's the only thing I can think of when differentiating the two.
Way too technical and beyond me o.o I remember Isaiah saying that A rekkas punish some stuff that C rekkas can't so I kind of assumed it was faster as well.
Anyway, thanks for the tips and hopefully I get more playtime so I can try out more things.
Yeah man try to head out to SF soon! I heard way back that Eric the arcade operator of both SFSU and SJSU was trying to get a KOF 13 board for SJSU as well but we never heard back after that.
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Demoninja answered most of them anyways but...
s.C does more than s.D? I don't really remember off the top of my head, but I do know that I used s.D instinctively at times.
Sorry for the confusion, I did mean s.C does more than s.A/d.A.
Is the f+A supposed to hit?
Yep.
Oh ok, I mentioned this in one of my messages, asking if this was legit or not. It worked pretty well whenever I used it, granted it was used sparingly. Thanks for the confirmation on this one.
Yeah I know you mentioned it over text, just wanted to post it here. It's a very viable tactic due to it's sheer speed but be careful as technically the Ex teleport can be punished as it ends still.
Two things I'd like to ask:
1) Isn't there a cross-under mixup from a juggle? Is it a CH air-to-air > j.f+AC > dash? I tried everything else but I couldn't get behind, so I'm thinking that's it?
You don't even need a counter hit if you use the air.f+AC; just do j.CD --> air.f+AC --> dash forward. If you do get a j.CD "counter", just j.CD again before going into air.f+AC. If you time it just right you should be able to do dash, vertical j.B --> air.f+B but I have to experiment with it some more (I did see it in an a-cho video).
2) I think I asked you before when Kunio was here, but I don't really remember. The wiki doesn't state any damage difference between A and C rekkas, so are there any height/distance property differences after the last hit? The reason why I ask is because after grounded combos using a f+A, I noticed that both you and Kunio both use A rekkas, in which the first hits whiffs. However, if you use C rekkas, all 3 hits connect. I was curious if A rekkas have any tactical advantage in this situation. Also, a difference in properties could affect the mixups, but thats only if there actually is any difference confirmed.
Without any actual proof and just from feeling it out, the A version comes out faster, but the C version has slightly more range. That's the only thing I can think of when differentiating the two.
Anyway, thanks for the tips and hopefully I get more playtime so I can try out more things.
Kunio couldn't find any difference either. I feel that the A version can be done slow and fast whereas it feels like the C version can only be done at one speed. I'll test it again when I'm at the arcades next.
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2) I think I asked you before when Kunio was here, but I don't really remember. The wiki doesn't state any damage difference between A and C rekkas, so are there any height/distance property differences after the last hit? The reason why I ask is because after grounded combos using a f+A, I noticed that both you and Kunio both use A rekkas, in which the first hits whiffs. However, if you use C rekkas, all 3 hits connect. I was curious if A rekkas have any tactical advantage in this situation. Also, a difference in properties could affect the mixups, but thats only if there actually is any difference confirmed.
Without any actual proof and just from feeling it out, the A version comes out faster, but the C version has slightly more range. That's the only thing I can think of when differentiating the two.
Anyway, thanks for the tips and hopefully I get more playtime so I can try out more things.
Kunio couldn't find any difference either. I feel that the A version can be done slow and fast whereas it feels like the C version can only be done at one speed. I'll test it again when I'm at the arcades next.
The reason I brought this up was because you lose out on damage simply because the first hit is whiffing when using the A version. I mean, I'm not sure if it's true on all combos regarding f+A > rekkas, and maybe the C version might not even work for some. Just something I noticed, that's all.
Thanks again Kane and Demo for your quick replies. I'll try to get on it again soon to see if I can think of anything else and actually put these tips to use lol
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Adding this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pr2wLHuvUi4&NR=1#t=2m38) to his video collection here and the first page post (http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?topic=284.msg4463#msg4463) archive of course.
EDIT: This is really a point of reference for myself, but this illustrates that DL's Ex teleport is not safe:
1. Renzo vs Kane317 - 7/24 Southtown Arcade KOFXIII Ranbat (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvI9KLC3zrc#ws) (5m33s)
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So, just to be safe: The console changes for Duo so far include:
Better f+AC, that leaves Duo with more advantage, one way of the other. (Either by faster recovery or more hitstun to the opponent).
Stronger Neomax: 448 rather than 400.
I'm also pretty sure the ;a button fireball start time was sped up, but I don't see this in your initial notes, Kane, though I believed you mentioned it. This one was true as well, right?
Was there any more to note? I'm quoting the info to a guy on Gaf, and I don't wanna steer him wrong, lol.
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Adding this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pr2wLHuvUi4&NR=1#t=2m38) to his video collection here and the first page post (http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?topic=284.msg4463#msg4463) archive of course.
EDIT: This is really a point of reference for myself, but this illustrates that DL's Ex teleport is not safe:
1. Renzo vs Kane317 - 7/24 Southtown Arcade KOFXIII Ranbat (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvI9KLC3zrc#ws) (5m33s)
I just saw this, but I don't think you can conclude that ex teleport isn't safe. You got counter hit which means you pressed a button so isn't it very possible for you to block after that?
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EX teleport is not safe. You can get hit during any portion of it's duration, whether it's start-up, active, or recovery frames. Granted, it's a pretty quick move, but I don't think there are any invul frames. So, if you get too predictable using it, you'll get stuffed out by quick pokes.
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Better f+AC, that leaves Duo with more advantage, one way of the other. (Either by faster recovery or more hitstun to the opponent).
Stronger Neomax: 448 rather than 400.
I'm also pretty sure the ;a button fireball start time was sped up, but I don't see this in your initial notes, Kane, though I believed you mentioned it. This one was true as well, right?
I wrote it later on, maybe I should update my page 1 notes for the console thread. The A projectile, qcb+A, is definitely much faster and very noticeable as well. The Ex f+AC allows you to now either do a s.C/s.D, s.A-->s.C, or just straight rekkas; it's real good now.
You forgot the most important change is his ability to cancel out of his f.A, when [DC] into, without wasting another [DC]. Before it was: rekkas, [DC] f.A, [DC] rekkas--> making it pretty wasteful of a drive. Now it's: rekkas, [DC] f.A, rekkas x3-->...
I just saw this, but I don't think you can conclude that ex teleport isn't safe. You got counter hit which means you pressed a button so isn't it very possible for you to block after that?
I saw that too before I first posted, but it's considered a "counter" because I was still in my teleport, not because I attacked. Either way, I've been punished before and the end or at the beginning many times.
EX teleport is not safe. You can get hit during any portion of it's duration, whether it's start-up, active, or recovery frames. Granted, it's a pretty quick move, but I don't think there are any invul frames. So, if you get too predictable using it, you'll get stuffed out by quick pokes.
There's slight invincibility in the middle of the teleport (confirmed by the technical references) but not at the beginning or at the end.
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Ahh, the one about Fwd A -> Rekkas _> Fwd. A I surely did forget. This should effect the number of reps he can achieve in HD mode too, right?
All his changes seem very smarly implemented, so that's great to hear. Thanks for the info, of course!
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Can his projectile really be considered a projectile? I've never seen it travel whole screen.
A semi-projectile, maybe?
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Can his projectile really be considered a projectile? I've never seen it travel whole screen.
A semi-projectile, maybe?
In arcade it's used for a dangerous mix up that puts him in a 50/50 situation. From the console version through EVO shows that his projectile speed buffed up which means his projectile is safer by faster start up and great force block situations that can lead to *cheeseburgers* (guard crush). His fireball isn't a great tool to use as a fireball game because his jump in attack speed makes up for it.
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Can his projectile really be considered a projectile? I've never seen it travel whole screen.
A semi-projectile, maybe?
In arcade it's used for a dangerous mix up that puts him in a 50/50 situation. From the console version through EVO shows that his projectile speed buffed up which means his projectile is safer by faster start up and great force block situations that can lead to *cheeseburgers* (guard crush). His fireball isn't a great tool to use as a fireball game because his jump in attack speed makes up for it.
Just what exactly do you mean by "50/50 situation"? I don't get what that means...
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Can his projectile really be considered a projectile? I've never seen it travel whole screen.
A semi-projectile, maybe?
In arcade it's used for a dangerous mix up that puts him in a 50/50 situation. From the console version through EVO shows that his projectile speed buffed up which means his projectile is safer by faster start up and great force block situations that can lead to *cheeseburgers* (guard crush). His fireball isn't a great tool to use as a fireball game because his jump in attack speed makes up for it.
If the Duolon does st.C into fireball and anticipates a slow reactioned jump in from the opponent would result in eating a cr.C. If the opponent jumps in automatically after a badly timed fireball then it is still possible to trade hits by duolons cr.C. Duolon's a character that relies on 50/50 setups.
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Can his projectile really be considered a projectile? I've never seen it travel whole screen.
A semi-projectile, maybe?
In arcade it's used for a dangerous mix up that puts him in a 50/50 situation. From the console version through EVO shows that his projectile speed buffed up which means his projectile is safer by faster start up and great force block situations that can lead to *cheeseburgers* (guard crush). His fireball isn't a great tool to use as a fireball game because his jump in attack speed makes up for it.
Just what exactly do you mean by "50/50 situation"? I don't get what that means...
A 50/50 situation in general refers to a situation in which the attacker will have two options to attack and the defender has to guess which one the attacker will do in order to avoid damage. In Duo's case from what I can glean from very limited knowledge, it means right after his QCB+A he can either go into a low (I think c.B, excuse my ignorance if wrong) and confirm into f.AxxRekkas or he can go I believe hop Bxxf.B and confirm off of that into a BnB Rekka combo. Because of the Frame Advantage Duo would have off of the projectile, the opponent's only option is to block either high or low and if the opponent guesses wrong, Duo does damage and can put him right back in that same situation.
All his mixup potential makes me want to play him a lot, the only problem is...for some reason I can never finish a Rekka chain consistently no matter the character. 02UM Kyo, Fei-Long, Karin, Yang and so on, when it comes to Rekkas I'm terrible X_X.
And again, if most of my above information (other than the general explanation of the 50/50) is incorrect, I apologize.
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I think I get what both of you mean.
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I forgot to post up his setups (http://youtu.be/PndqRE10eFw?t=1m36s) when I posted Shen's.
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First page has been updated with console changes:
*Hit stun on EX f.A is adjusted. It is possible to combo with a strong attack or qcb.A after EX f.A.
*EX rekka can be cancelled with a special or greater
*fb frames have been adjusted. It is now easier to include the weak version in attacks strings and combos as it is faster.
*f.B can be cancelled by super or greater
-Damage adjusted on NM from 400 to 480
Yamamoto:
f.B, aside from one shot cancels, the following is also possible: f.A>qcb.B>f.B>super ,so a f.A intitiated hit confirm combo. His fb is now easier to leave on the screen so coordinate attacks with it on the screen.
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Duo looks really interesting but I have a dumb question: How do you play him? Is he primarily runaway/zoning character or can he get in and wreck shit like everyone else? What are some good mixups to use?
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Duo looks really interesting but I have a dumb question: How do you play him? Is he primarily runaway/zoning character or can he get in and wreck shit like everyone else? What are some good mixups to use?
Duo Lon is both, he's a mix of zoning keep away (with Mai-like jump properties) yet he can all over you rushdown mixup style. He does take some time to get used to and his combos aren't necessarily damaging in particular so beware.
Check the strategy section I wrote in the wiki (http://dreamcancel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Duo_Lon_(XIII)), the mixups are 90% the same in the console, the only one you can't do is the: rekkas x3, f.BD, j.C -->crossup D doesn't work anymore as the characters are now "taller".
Also check the first page (http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?topic=284.msg4463#msg4463) for a handful of videos.
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In the wiki and combo videos I've seen of Duo Lon his HD combos usually end with him doing Rekka x3, HD Cancel, QCB+A Super Cancel. I recall there's a corner loop with a continuous juggle of Rekka x3 HD Cancel QCB+A with one of the rekka's whiffing. In any case when I try to at least do Rekka x3, HD Cancel QCB+A the fireball whiffs like it just passes by the opponent before they can land in it.
I read that one of the buffs to Duo Lon for the console version was that his QCB+A startup time was decreased so it comes out faster now and I'm wondering if this buff made this combo not applicable anymore. To further support this theory I noticed in his trials that his HD variation of QCF+A x2, HD Cancel f+A ended with f+A Super cancel. The other HD combo that juggled off of a fireball required him to use the EX version before continuing the juggle.
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Welcome to DC! (Don't forget to introduce yourself here (http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?board=9.0))
Duo Lon can no longer do that corner combo (rekkas x3, [DC] qcb A, DM). Instead just [SC] into DM or you can do the harder variation of [DC] into Ex Rekkas x2, qcb A, d.C, f.A, rekkas, qcf B, s.C
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Welcome to DC! (Don't forget to introduce yourself here (http://dreamcancel.com/forum/index.php?board=9.0))
Duo Lon can no longer do that corner combo (rekkas x3, [DC] qcb A, DM). Instead just [SC] into DM or you can do the harder variation of [DC] into Ex Rekkas x2, qcb A, d.C, f.A, rekkas, qcf B, s.C
Thanks I'll remember to introduce myself when I get home from work.
Hmmm...do you think it's because of the faster start up that prevents it from working or just some other change to the character/game that causes this? In any case, I know that HD combos isn't something you really aim for with Duo Lon and I have him on point for a battery but just trying to learn all the options the character has bit-by-bit. Thank you for the verification and thanks for posting an alternative ender to the combo.
I've read through the forums, dream cancels wiki, and srk's hyper guide and I have some additional questions to Duo Lon for anyone who is willing to help me out.
1) I've been using this as my standard hit confirm BnB off of a c.B:
c.Bx2, c.A, f+A, Rekka x 3 (first rekka whiffs), cancel last rekka into QCF+B
I've noticied some inconsitencies with myself in whether I land behind or in front of my opponent with the QCF+B. I figure this is a timing issue on my part but I can't exactly figure out at what point in the combo I'm too slow with that causes me to land in front of the opponent after QCF+B.
2) I've seen in a mix up video of Duo Lon that after a s.A reset after Rekkas, QCF+B he can go for what I've read to be a fuzzy guard setup of hop j.B, jf+B, land, hop j.B, jf+B. What's the timing for this setup? I can't really understand how this is a fuzzy guard setup as well since you would normally hit deep with a jumping normal first to keep their standing hitbox or is this a KoF specific fuzzy guard setup? Also, is that combo still possible as I've noticed it looks like you need to do jf.BD in order to get the second set of hop j.B, jf+B to work.
3) Is there any other setups after his rekkas xx QCF+B, s.A or f+BD that'll allow him to get a cross up j.D either through hops, hyper hops, jumps, or super jumps? I've experimented around with the timing of his QCF+B and couldn't find anything consistent. I know he had one cross up setup from f+BD but that doesn't work anymore because characters are "taller" now.
Apologies on all the mix up questions I would ask more about the fundamentals of KoF pacing and flow but I figure those questions are suited else where. Thanks in advance.
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Hmmm...do you think it's because of the faster start up that prevents it from working or just some other change to the character/game that causes this?
The projectile is too fast and by the time they fall it won't juggle. I got it to work once when I wasn't quite in the corner (sweep distance), only then did I get it to work.
1) I've been using this as my standard hit confirm BnB off of a c.B:
c.Bx2, c.A, f+A, Rekka x 3 (first rekka whiffs), cancel last rekka into QCF+B
I've noticied some inconsitencies with myself in whether I land behind or in front of my opponent with the QCF+B. I figure this is a timing issue on my part but I can't exactly figure out at what point in the combo I'm too slow with that causes me to land in front of the opponent after QCF+B.
I had the same problem before, the trick is to cancel the qcf B as fast as possible on the third rekkas.
2) I've seen in a mix up video of Duo Lon that after a s.A reset after Rekkas, QCF+B he can go for what I've read to be a fuzzy guard setup of hop j.B, jf+B, land, hop j.B, jf+B. What's the timing for this setup? I can't really understand how this is a fuzzy guard setup as well since you would normally hit deep with a jumping normal first to keep their standing hitbox or is this a KoF specific fuzzy guard setup? Also, is that combo still possible as I've noticed it looks like you need to do jf.BD in order to get the second set of hop j.B, jf+B to work.
I could never get two sets off, just the hop B, air f.B.
3) Is there any other setups after his rekkas xx QCF+B, s.A or f+BD that'll allow him to get a cross up j.D either through hops, hyper hops, jumps, or super jumps? I've experimented around with the timing of his QCF+B and couldn't find anything consistent. I know he had one cross up setup from f+BD but that doesn't work anymore because characters are "taller" now.
Apologies on all the mix up questions I would ask more about the fundamentals of KoF pacing and flow but I figure those questions are suited else where. Thanks in advance.
Sadly, I can't find any. You can probably do a hyperhop C, dash under mixup. If you do find one, lemme know and I'll update the wiki (btw, I wrote the strategy section for him).
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I figured out my issue with question 1. It looks like I cancelled the first rekka into the second too quickly which will always put me in front of my opponent. If I wait a bit for the first rekka to travel more then do the rest the teleport will always put me behind my opponent.
In terms of cross up j.D's I can only find ones after qcf+B, s.A then small hop j.D but this usually isn't ideal because it only crosses up when the opponent is crouching and if they anticipate on you doing something after they can just anti-air you when they recover.
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ummm i dont use the lon and i never will (y would i say such a thing) but i just played a magnificent dou lon and he pulled some type of trickery play by play this is what he did i was knocked down on the ground and as i was gettin up he either hit close standing C or the first rekka and he magically ended up on the other side of me can some 1 explain this
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ok i found out how 2 do (didnt take long to figure it out) what he is able to do when the oppenent gets up is CD (whiff) into rekkas and he is some how on the other side thats smart talk about a mix up game.....
and sorry if this is old news
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ummm i dont use the lon and i never will (y would i say such a thing) but i just played a magnificent dou lon and he pulled some type of trickery play by play this is what he did i was knocked down on the ground and as i was gettin up he either hit close standing C or the first rekka and he magically ended up on the other side of me can some 1 explain this
It's his st.CD. If you time it correctly on an opponent's wakeup after a hard knockdown, it with switch sides with the opponent. Also, it can be timed so that the st.CD still whiffs, but Duo Lon will stay in front.