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I don't understand the hyperbole with the netcode complaints.  I play 2002 on GGPO all the time so I have good benchmark of what's good and what's not good.  Is 13's netcode GGPO?  No.  Is it bad?  No!  I'm in NB Canada and I play a guy in Texas.  We're both on wired broadband and like 3000 miles apart and ping about 100-120 ms from each other.  We get a two bar connection and the games are super playable.  There is a tiny bit of delay but it's nothing like 2002UM.  It's as close to GGPO as non-rollback netcode could be.  I can do combos just fine, and not just little bread and butters but true HD combos.  3 bar connections are even better.

Yes, occasionally I play people with shitty connections where the delay is huge.  I send them a message asking if they're on wireless and usually they are.  Others are probably playing without opening all of their ports or without an open NAT.

I think you guys seriously need to check your shit and stop expecting any online to be playable on wireless.  Wireless drops packets all the time and is too unreliable for real-time applications.

Just to be clear, I would have preferred 13 use GGPO just like everyone else, but this constant vitriol about how "atrocious" the netcode is just factually untrue and is probably giving people who were otherwise interested the wrong impression about its playability.  Campaign all you want for GGPO netcode in this version or the next, but don't take a big shit all over the netcode when it's perfectly playable.

360 here on an 18mbit down/0.5mbit up wired cable connection.  Played multiple people today and there definitely was some input delay, but it was mostly minor at 3 bars and a bit heavier at 2, still playable though but it takes adjustment.  It's no GGPO but it's not as bad for me as some people make it out to be.  Definitely a lot better than 2002UM.  I haven't found anyone with 4 bars yet.

I think I remember reading somewhere that they used 3D models as the basis for their sprites, then retouched them to look more hand-drawn.

Close, but wrong.

They used 3D models as references, and then drew them all out. They don't look hand-drawn, they are hand-drawn.

Ahh yeah, okay, thanks for the clarification.  Either way it suggests they do have models for these characters though!  And rotoscoping might be less time-intensive than doing sprites from scratch, so here's hoping for a dream match version!

I think I remember reading somewhere that they used 3D models as the basis for their sprites, then retouched them to look more hand-drawn.

If that's true perhaps there are models of everyone you posted... which means maybe it's feasible to make them into real playable characters in an update or future installment.

I'd advise against the Madcatz fightpads. The D-pads on those things are stiff as hell. I'd recommend anything made by Hori.

I've used both the Madcatz SF4/WWE fightpads and the Hori Ex Turbo 2 for 360.  I didn't find the Madcatz pads stiff, but they were very cheaply made and only lasted about 3 months before the dpad started to go.  The Hori Ex Turbo 2 dpad is way better in overall responsiveness but it has some ghosting problems with the left analog.  Sometimes it would make me move left, jump or get stuck crouching at even the faintest touch.  I ended up using a hot knife and cutting the left analog off, that fixed all my problems until wear and tear took its toll on the dpad and it started going after about 4 months. 

If it's a choice between the two I'd stick with the Ex Turbo 2 every time, but it has problems.  I'd recommend it only if you can take it back in case you get ghosting problems (or you're unwilling to remove the analogs to fix it).

I'm really looking forward to Joe.  I feel he's a little weak and limited in 2002 so 13's version is getting me excited to play him.  I'm also really hoping that canceling his slide into Bakuretsu Ken won't require using turbo anymore.

Gamertag: JennyCage
Location: New Brunswick, Canada

Cool video, it's nice to get a real look at the menus and some of the options available.  I'm a little disappointed with the lack of a spectator mode, though.  MK9's 8 man King of the Hill really brought a lot of hype and friends together, especially with the voice chat on XBL parties.  KOF13 could have really used something like that, or at least a way to spectate friend matches.  Maybe they'll patch something in later.

The only thing that worries me about this video is the lack of mentioning about any delay.  They talk about smoothness and the game not dropping, but that should be pretty standard for in-state play with any game.  Even ancient netcodes can accomplish that.  Avoiding the subject of delay doesn't seem legit to me.

Once upon a time I thought that you couldn't read dumber comments than youtube

Than, I made the mistake of read the ign comments section

You gotta admit two noobs spamming standing C doesn't make the game look exciting.  This video doesn't really demonstrate anything other than rookie gameplay.  There's no mention of the distances/latencies involved (what's the lag like?), no footage of online exclusive features... all in all a pretty useless video for showcasing online.

I'm still hyped though.

sf has way more character specific match ups than mk, same goes for other 2d fighters. i doubt mk9 is as character specific with it's match ups compared to the sf2 or 4 series.

true but some specific stuff is pretty extreme - http://www.twitch.tv/devastationevent/b/296936668
skip to 1:31:30

also you can play whoever you want just dont think you have the right to complain when players win with the strongest characters. you picked from the same select screen everyone else does

True but there comes a point where imbalance can be so grossly apparent that the fun is sucked out of the game.  Take Kabal for example, MK9's reigning king.  His projectiles are unstuffable (they come out on frame 1), hugely spammable as you see in the video, and he has some of the best pressure, mixups and frametraps in the game up close.  The master of everything if you will.  Kabal completely negates so many characters in MK9 that they might as well rename the game in his honour.  Before him it was Kung Lao.  And then there's Cyrax, where one net can lead to 100% unblockable resets despite numerous failed efforts to patch him.

Trust me, if there's one thing I know it's MK9.  To deny it being a heavily matchup based game is like denying the sky is blue or that water is wet lol.

Well I can't answer about SF2 since I was like 9 when it was on SNES, nor can I answer about SF4 because I only played it for a few months before getting too frustrated with one frame links on my laggy monitor... but MK9 has a lot of really lopsided matchups.  I'm talking 8-2, 7-3 matchups (Sheeva vs Lao, Cyber VS Tsung, Cyber VS Kabal to name a few).  It's in a better place than it used to be with recent patching, but it's still a very matchup dependant fighter.  Like I said, I had 3 mains I had to dump just because of it... that would never happen in KOF thank goodness.

Anyway we're kind of derailing this thread!  So here's another video!

KoF13 Console (360) - Frionel vs Piccolo - Finale 5/5

I love the fact that SNKP makes characters whom all feel useable and unique. I rarely feel completly outclassed with ANY character I play, unlike other companies games, where the matchups feel more lopsided, to me. This is one strong reason as to why I enjoy KoF, so "tier whoring" would be totally aganist that...

Absolutely!  This is one of KOF's many strong points.  I play (or rather used to play) Mortal Kombat 9 and that game is very much matchup dependant... in fact it's probably the most matchup dependant fighters I've ever played.  There's nothing more heartbreaking than putting a couple months into a character only to realize he/she is severely countered by another... in my case I had to drop 3 of my mains because they weren't viable against the high tier in MK9.  I know when I play KOF I'll never have to drop a character and they'll always be able to put up a fight against anyone. 

Thank you everyone for all your tips, this is much more than I was expecting and I'm very grateful.  I'll try to implement alternate guarding into my play and try to work on my spacing so I'm safer from grabs.   

Hi all, I was hoping somebody could give me some advice on how to fight grab characters in 2002 and 2002UM.  I've played KOF for several months but I still can't figure out how to beat Clark, Orochi Yashiro, etc.. I can't interrupt their grabs with normals, specials get stuffed, if I try to counter-grab it usually doesn't work or they go for a normal into a command grab... I'm just so lost, I feel utterly helpless against grab characters.  Please help!

I have a question.  Are low kick to low punch links as hard to perform in 13 as they are in 2002?  For example with K' and Iori?  Or has the window to link been widened?