Author Topic: Will playing against Very Hard AI help me improve?  (Read 7084 times)

ZeWickedOreo

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Will playing against Very Hard AI help me improve?
« on: August 02, 2011, 08:17:51 AM »
These past few weeks I've only been playing against AI opponents cause there isn't a KOF XIII Arcade here inthe philippines. (that's why im so darn excited about the console release so I could PSN)
Just really curious, cause I beat 'em up kinda easily(not bragging) so I'm wondering when I play against real players... ugh... I don't know... Would it be different?
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iamGab

Xxenace

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Re: Will playing against Very Hard AI help me improve?
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2011, 09:13:34 AM »
though im not the best at any fighting game i would say playing against human opponents is probably the best way to improve since its not as easy to read a real person compared to a computer 

ZeWickedOreo

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Re: Will playing against Very Hard AI help me improve?
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2011, 02:58:31 PM »
That's saaad. I guess I'll just try to improve my basic skills then I'll just improve further when I get it on ps3. PSN all the waaaaaaaay!! Darn sad that there's no KOF13 in arcades here in the Philippines. :|
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thec0re3

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Re: Will playing against Very Hard AI help me improve?
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2011, 07:35:03 PM »
There barely any here in U.S.A either just in certain areas mine not being one of them :(

FataCon

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Re: Will playing against Very Hard AI help me improve?
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2011, 07:46:51 PM »
AI is definitely never the optimal way to train. There are things that AI cannot emulate from human players: particular habits, adaptation, stress/fatigue/emotion, etc. A lot of strategy and things you play off on during a match aren't going to be found against an AI-opponent. It's a pretty big detriment to learning when you can't establish good fundamentals like spacing, conditioning, and mindgames/mixups.

I would dare to say that even training mode would be better than arcade mode. At least there you can test properties without a moving opponent or experiment. Some games will even allow you to record inputs for the dummy so you can test blockstrings or how to punish particular moves or setups. AI is decent for learning how to hitconfirm or just to reinforce your muscle memory with combos (which is better suited for training mode anyway).

One thing to be careful of when playing against the AI is picking up bad habits. As non-adaptive AI, once you figure out a way to overcome them, you may lead yourself into believing that a particular tactic is viable or really works, when, in reality, an adaptive human opponent can easily counteract a particular technique or setup after seeing it a few times or even once. Do note that this doesn't just go for KOF, but any fighting game. Your best bet is always to find a human opponent of equal or greater skill. The AI can't give you feedback on things you need to work on or improve, but a friend or opponent definitely can.

Nagare_Ryouma

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Re: Will playing against Very Hard AI help me improve?
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2011, 10:48:41 PM »
I agree 100% with Fatacon.
I also think that even training mode is better than CPU.
You need to play againts other people, there is no other way, just like in sports.

ZeWickedOreo

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Re: Will playing against Very Hard AI help me improve?
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2011, 04:14:34 AM »
AI is definitely never the optimal way to train. There are things that AI cannot emulate from human players: particular habits, adaptation, stress/fatigue/emotion, etc. A lot of strategy and things you play off on during a match aren't going to be found against an AI-opponent. It's a pretty big detriment to learning when you can't establish good fundamentals like spacing, conditioning, and mindgames/mixups.

I would dare to say that even training mode would be better than arcade mode. At least there you can test properties without a moving opponent or experiment. Some games will even allow you to record inputs for the dummy so you can test blockstrings or how to punish particular moves or setups. AI is decent for learning how to hitconfirm or just to reinforce your muscle memory with combos (which is better suited for training mode anyway).

One thing to be careful of when playing against the AI is picking up bad habits. As non-adaptive AI, once you figure out a way to overcome them, you may lead yourself into believing that a particular tactic is viable or really works, when, in reality, an adaptive human opponent can easily counteract a particular technique or setup after seeing it a few times or even once. Do note that this doesn't just go for KOF, but any fighting game. Your best bet is always to find a human opponent of equal or greater skill. The AI can't give you feedback on things you need to work on or improve, but a friend or opponent definitely can.
Ohhhhhh! Yeah.. just like in tekken.. I guess I just have to wait for the console now I'll prolly study and improve as much characters as again.. damn a lot of people would sure whoop my ass in PSN cause they've already played in an arcade. But that won't bring me down >:)
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iamGab

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Re: Will playing against Very Hard AI help me improve?
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2011, 06:38:30 AM »
Well, truth be told I'm no expert myself, but in certain cases proper use of AI can be an invaluable learning tool. Ideally, you should spend a lot of time in training perfecting your set-ups/combos/whatever. A good secondary step to dealing with real folks could be using the AI of the game if you can't find people (a tragic situation all too common in SNK games, I'm looking at you NGBC). It certainly helps for at least dealing with performing combos on moving/attacking opponents. Of course, your mileage will vary depending on how good the game's AI is but at least you can get some practice performing those combos on something other than a dummy, which makes a world of difference.

In the end real people>AI but AI can be a good intermediate tool when you are starting out and shouldn't be ruled out completely.

ZeWickedOreo

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Re: Will playing against Very Hard AI help me improve?
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2011, 06:56:52 AM »
thanks a lot maaan! so far I'm able to perform my combos on very hard ai's... so i think that''s a good thing but the difference should really be big when I play against another person! I'm expecting the worst that's why imma train hardeerrrr! :D GYEAH
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iamGab

bigvador

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Re: Will playing against Very Hard AI help me improve?
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2011, 07:54:50 AM »
you should just play XII online

PureYeti

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Re: Will playing against Very Hard AI help me improve?
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2011, 08:51:57 AM »
Definitely not start from there to learn the basics

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Re: Will playing against Very Hard AI help me improve?
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2011, 09:25:47 AM »
The AI is only good for hit confirming, and knowing how to break throws on reaction. They are also good for training against certain special moves or supers depending on how often they use them.

As mentioned the record replay (or command record) function is a great tool in training mode because you can reenact certain setups and situations against yourself and try to find ways around them or to get used to experiencing them.


I would say if you have a PC is to use GGPO or Supercade, and play some human opponents in KOF98 or KOF2002 to build a solid and ever flowing metagame, because the CPU isn't going to give you that.
"Do not place so much importance on winning. The fight itself has value."

ZeWickedOreo

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Re: Will playing against Very Hard AI help me improve?
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2011, 12:29:26 PM »
That's a great idea! I never knew GGPO!! I researched it when I saw your post... whoahhh.. doesn't it lag? :O
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thec0re3

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Re: Will playing against Very Hard AI help me improve?
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2011, 03:58:47 PM »
Its all depending on where you are when you are looking for a match up you want someone who is around 60ms to 150ms anything above that LAG is going to be constant.  There is also supercade and arclive. I like arclive cause they automatically record your matches and you can save them. 

bigvador

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Re: Will playing against Very Hard AI help me improve?
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2011, 12:33:45 AM »
Definitely not start from there to learn the basics

i learned my basics from XII and im able to carry myself to other KOF games