Author Topic: Ash Crimson (Console)  (Read 49705 times)

nilcam

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Ash Crimson (Console)
« on: December 06, 2011, 04:48:01 AM »


Notation
;a = Light Punch
;b = Light Kick
;c = Strong Punch
;d = Strong Kick

* = EX version possible

Throws
Recompenses - ;bk / ;fd +  ;c /  ;d

Command Normals
Floreal - ;bk +  ;b

Floreal (backward) - ;bk + ;d

Special Moves
Ventose - Charge ;bk, ;fd +  ;a / ;c *

Nivose - Charge  ;dn, ;up + ;b / ;d *

Germinal Caprice - Charge ;bk, ;fd +  ;b /  ;d *

Genee - ;qcb + ;a /  ;b / ;c / ;d *

Desperation Moves
Thermidor - ;qcf x 2+ ;a / ;c

Pluivose - ;qcf x 2+ ;b / ;d *

Sans Culotte - ;a ,  ;b , ;c , ;d

Germinal - ;qcb, ;hcf +  ;a  ;c

Neomax
Fructidor - ;hcb x 2+  ;b ;d

Ash's Wiki entry

Console changes:
- (shown in video) All versions of Genie stay on the screen longer.
- (shown in video) Sans-culotte (ABCD) has had its damage scaling adjusted. It scales more overall.
- Floreal (forward) (b+B) has faster startup and can be comboed from light attacks.
- B version of Nivose (d_u+K) has had its invincibility increased. The invincibility ends as soon as the hitbox appears.
- EX Genie now knocks away while retaining its juggling properties
- (shown in video) Germinal now takes no gauge
- (shown in video) Thermidorís startup is faster
- (shown in video) The version of EX Genie done using both kicks tracks the opponent.

Yamamoto: Genie remains on the screen for a longer time. It may be interesting to use Genie as a wall of defense as Ventose can now be used while Genie is present. Although Sans Culotte scales more frequently, please try using Germinal as that no longer requires stocks itself.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2011, 07:06:40 PM by nilcam »

nilcam

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Re: Ash Crimson (Console)
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2011, 04:48:26 AM »
Reserved
« Last Edit: December 06, 2011, 07:06:51 PM by nilcam »

nilcam

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Re: Ash Crimson (Console)
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2011, 04:48:34 AM »
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« Last Edit: December 06, 2011, 07:07:03 PM by nilcam »

milesw

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Re: Ash Crimson (Console)
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2011, 03:07:09 AM »
満月の夜にまた会おうか!

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BolverkGTM

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Re: Ash Crimson (Console)
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2011, 03:55:19 PM »
Thanks, Miles.  I'll add that to the Video Thread when I create it later today.

Aenthin

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Re: Ash Crimson (Console)
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2011, 07:42:22 PM »
So has anyone figured out Thermidor's uses yet?

m1x4h

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Re: Ash Crimson (Console)
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2011, 04:11:57 PM »
So has anyone figured out Thermidor's uses yet?

This might just be my newbie talk coming from a newbie who's been probably been playing newbies... I use it occassionally after a knock down to lock down... At about a sweep distance, it's easy to hyperhop in for a high low mixup, or baiting a roll cancel and just hop straight up hk / empty and go low...

I don't assume that's a viable tactic in medium / high level play?

Is  ;dn ;b a legit poke? I've been getting in with that and hop  ;a a bit, but I feel like there might be better alternatives.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2011, 04:24:41 PM by m1x4h »
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Aenthin

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Re: Ash Crimson (Console)
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2011, 03:18:17 AM »
Well, that's the normal use for Thermidor. People may argue it's not really worth the power stock though.

Also, yeah, cr.B is one of his better pokes, best used with b+B (adds forward pressure) and b+D (retreat if blocked). s.B is too short, s.C is a little too slow (though you could mix it up for timing), s.D isn't cancellable, cr.D is a sweep and cr.A has a shorter range.

Parapets

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Re: Ash Crimson (Console)
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2011, 12:06:55 PM »
cr.B, st.C, st.D, and cr.D are all pretty useful as poking tools. st.C is probably the least useful due to how slow it is, but it's still better than some similar moves of other characters because it hits many crouching characters and is cancelable. st.D is nice for its lower body invincibility and faster startup than b+B. cr.D has pretty good range and startup and is also cancelable, so it's a good sweep overall. Remember that cancelable normals can cancel into command normals (b+B, b+D) or specials (qcb+X, b~f+P) even on whiff, so as long as you make use of this, you don't have to worry too much about being whiff-punished, especially with the extremely fast b+D available.

m1x4h

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Re: Ash Crimson (Console)
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2011, 03:51:45 PM »
cr.B, st.C, st.D, and cr.D are all pretty useful as poking tools. st.C is probably the least useful due to how slow it is, but it's still better than some similar moves of other characters because it hits many crouching characters and is cancelable. st.D is nice for its lower body invincibility and faster startup than b+B. cr.D has pretty good range and startup and is also cancelable, so it's a good sweep overall. Remember that cancelable normals can cancel into command normals (b+B, b+D) or specials (qcb+X, b~f+P) even on whiff, so as long as you make use of this, you don't have to worry too much about being whiff-punished, especially with the extremely fast b+D available.

Thanks for that. On hop, is A the best option?
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Aenthin

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Re: Ash Crimson (Console)
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2011, 03:55:18 AM »
Well, there's j.D too. It kicks deep and, like j.A, it can crossup. Easier to combo afterwards too. j.A is still faster though and can more easily hit crouchers trying to jump.

j.B and j.C both have an angle but make decent pokes against airborne opponents. j.B has longer reach and is faster while j.C can hit standing opponents easier but may still whiff against crouchers. j.D may seem like it would hit airborne opponents too but if your opponent is on a higher plane than you are, it may whiff.

m1x4h

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Re: Ash Crimson (Console)
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2011, 05:23:31 AM »
Hmm. Hardest thing about the J.D is when I hop, it often doesn't come out... I suppose I can just start it much earlier, but then I can't combo off of it... Hmm, I'll play with that. THanks.
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Milln

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Re: Ash Crimson (Console)
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2011, 06:01:49 AM »
How I play Ash: Basic Mega-zoney with tech traps. Every jump or hop is always flash kicked. Flame Kiss on knock down. I WANT an evasive roll so I can punish with a combo.  Low projectilers (and Mai) force me to be more aggressive.

To the above, j.D is terrible for air to air vs. his j.C. j.D has no hitbox above a 190 degree angle which is why you're experiencing it not coming out on hops.  Start it earlier, I promise you can still combo.
Uses I have for Thermidore:
On knockdown to Force opponent to block or roll.
Catch jump-ins that I see or hops that I know are coming to bounce them into the corner, where all the partying's at.
For no reason just to see what they'll do when I yell "Run! Run!" in the voice of Dormammu(I'll stop this, I promise)
To chip someone out. Thermidore > Fire Kiss > Weak Ventose or even Thermidore> Thermidore does a surprising amount if they aren paying attention and do something besides stand there blocking.
If this sounds dumb, it may be, I will readily admit I am new to the game, but the above definitely work on others. For now, at least.

That being said, what's the best way to get a good Germinal off during a Sans Culotte combo?  I can only barely justify doing Sans Culotte in the first place. Best damage I can get is 375 cause I have awful execution. Why would I risk dropping a long combo that is hella spacing dependent when I can just EX Pluivose from anything?  Or am I simply just thinking wrong?  Teach me, guide me.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2011, 08:06:48 AM by Milln »
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Diavle

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Re: Ash Crimson (Console)
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2011, 03:59:59 PM »
Ran him in my team yesterday online and he was so much fun, even though I felt like a complete ass towards my opponent with my style of play lol.

I know ppl prefer him 2nd or 3rd because of how good he is with meter but I found him to be a fantastic battery, doing extremely well while mostly spending meter on the occasional EX fireball. My Clark would come in 2nd pretty much loaded every time to the teeth with meter. It was kinda funny in the sense that my first character was an annoying keep away style ("let me out! let me out!") while the 2nd kept trying to get in all the time ("let me in! let me in!"), must've messed with the opponent's heads.

That being said, what's the best way to get a good Germinal off during a Sans Culotte combo?  I can only barely justify doing Sans Culotte in the first place. Best damage I can get is 375 cause I have awful execution. Why would I risk dropping a long combo that is hella spacing dependent when I can just EX Pluivose from anything?  Or am I simply just thinking wrong?  Teach me, guide me.

Execution is the barrier but if you get past it that is where Sans Culotte's true power comes into play since you can go straight from it into HD and back into another Sans Culotte if you want. Its a very powerful but at the same time in no way easy, and so abusable, tool.

One of the big advantages of this super is how invincible it seems to be so a great get off me move, not to mention I'd rather mistime this in a combo in front of the opponent's face than a QCF QCF+K.

I'm no execution specialist so since taking him up yesterday, and doing suprisingly well online, I've been thinking about how to use this super with minimal effort. The thing about it is that it starts to scale heavily the more you go so even if you did Germinal at the end it would do barely any damage. But if you look at Germinal's damage right after activation then it actually isn't that bad.

So going by what I saw in a vid I think the bnb combo I will use after Sans Culotte is activated is:

Nivose, b+D, Germinal Caprice > Nivose, b+D, Germinal Caprice > Germinal for the finish

Iirc this did pretty solid damage since little scaling takes place (more than the kick super) and doesn't seem to be very execution heavy (gonna try it when I get home).


Dobiqwolf

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Re: Ash Crimson (Console)
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2012, 04:35:54 AM »
the fact that germinal lock special moves for ever compensate for the lack of damage IMO.