Topic: Mature (Console)

[Milln]

For anti-air I'll throw out a standing D since its faster than CD and seems to trade/beat out just as much.  If I have no time, I'll do crouching C.

Question I have is what use can I put qcb+D to outside of Rekka air combos? It's really wonky on its conditions to actually strike and if I'm fighting someone who mashes under pressure, I get stuffed.  I need people's to respect mah blockstrings

[Ash]

Some small notes.

Use her as a Anti-Air is great. It may be slow, but it beats & or trades with alot of shit.

Also, her Short Hop causes good pressure.

Also just like in old KOF's, I find it very important that Mature players practice her Ebony Tears and get them down smoothly one after another. Furthermore, practice to understand the correct spacing & timing for tossing them out. This move is one of Matures very few strong points. It covers a good amount of the screen and can blow up short hops if used correctly. Also, clearly the EX version is Very good. Can make some pretty good pressure setups off of them.   

You don't think she's very good? Her damage output is low I know, but...

Actually her damage output is pretty decent. If you're starting from 3-4 light attacks for her combos, it's expected her damage will scale a lot more if you do drive cancel combos. If you can punish an opponent, it's best to do s.C as a starter. With 1 or 2 meters, she can output a lot of damage with s.C > qcb+BD > s.C > another loop or rekkas. With drive cancel and 1 meter, you can do light attacks into 1-2 rekkas > [DC] qcb+BD > s.C > rekkas. To be able to do high damage with her, it's important to learn the link after qcb+BD to s.C

[BigToughMcGruff]

Some small notes.

Use her as a Anti-Air is great. It may be slow, but it beats & or trades with alot of shit.

Also, her Short Hop causes good pressure.

Also just like in old KOF's, I find it very important that Mature players practice her Ebony Tears and get them down smoothly one after another. Furthermore, practice to understand the correct spacing & timing for tossing them out. This move is one of Matures very few strong points. It covers a good amount of the screen and can blow up short hops if used correctly. Also, clearly the EX version is Very good. Can make some pretty good pressure setups off of them.  

You don't think she's very good? Her damage output is low I know, but...

Huh!? R you sure your referring to me. If so I didn't say or mean that at all, this is just some ways to play her. I think shes very good. She or Vice are always the anchor on my team.

I think it seemed implied you felt that way because of the wording of "This move is one of Matures very few strong points."

[BiGGDaddyCane]

I think it seemed implied you felt that way because of the wording of "This move is one of Matures very few strong points."

I see.

No worries, the problem is me.  I'm just used to Mature having more moves, the decide and her DP from the previous KOF's. Which makes it feel like they toned her down in XIII to me. However, she's still very much a strong character with those moves gone.

The reason I said very few is because; For me It just feels like she lost some great options she used to have. Just playing KOF with her & her being one of my mains for years, its taking time for me to adapt to her XIII playstyle.

[Terrastorm]

Now, I only played 98, but it feels to me that Mature has more usable moves than before; despair is actually safe on block now, and qcb+b comes out quickly now. Deicide always had slow start up and slow recovery. Her old DP left her terribly vulnerable on block, and I am pretty sure it wasn't invincible either. EX despair gives her an actual reversal now. I like you have to play her somewhat differently now.

IDK, if they became better moves in later games.

[jinxhand]

I think it seemed implied you felt that way because of the wording of "This move is one of Matures very few strong points."

I see.

No worries, the problem is me.  I'm just used to Mature having more moves, the decide and her DP from the previous KOF's. Which makes it feel like they toned her down in XIII to me. However, she's still very much a strong character with those moves gone.

The reason I said very few is because; For me It just feels like she lost some great options she used to have. Just playing KOF with her & her being one of my mains for years, its taking time for me to adapt to her XIII playstyle.

I'ma be real-- I'm glad I don't have to worry about that dp move anymore... It wasn't that great to me other than BC combos from 02/02UM, and even then you'd have to worry about the precise input... It didn't really serve a purpose.

Changing Despair into a move with the option to attack or not serves better I feel. She can cover the air while chasing behind her Ebony Tears (especially her EX Ebony Tears), making her an almost unstoppable wall of rushdown. There's always the "empty jump in" tactic without necessarily using a short hop, with the option to hit A/C to attack if the opponent does decide to do something, which can also set up for a reset pending on what the opponent actually does when they get hit.

This is one of those situations where "less is more" for Mature... 

[BiGGDaddyCane]

I'ma be real-- I'm glad I don't have to worry about that dp move anymore... It wasn't that great to me other than BC combos from 02/02UM, and even then you'd have to worry about the precise input... It didn't really serve a purpose.


Changing Despair into a move with the option to attack or not serves better I feel. She can cover the air while chasing behind her Ebony Tears (especially her EX Ebony Tears), making her an almost unstoppable wall of rushdown. There's always the "empty jump in" tactic without necessarily using a short hop, with the option to hit A/C to attack if the opponent does decide to do something, which can also set up for a reset pending on what the opponent actually does when they get hit.

This is one of those situations where "less is more" for Mature...  

Yea, i've realized the Ebony Tears with Despair tactic. Pointed out that Ebony and EX Ebony is part of what helps her pressure game. One of the first tactics you"ll catch onto when you learn when you play her. The modifications of her Despair & addition of EX Despair is really good. Also, a course she has many other tactics including her Death Downer and Metal Massacre.

As far as how worthless her old DP was; her light version was pretty damn safe on block in 98 and only punishable by a few moves and command grab IIRC. Also, it pushed the character forward. Furthermore, causing chip damage for each time she spinned around (4 or 5 hits of chip damage). I used it alot against Short & Hyper Hops, along with despair. Also, just to chip out the opponent and or force them to use meter for a Blow back attack to stop the chip & pressure.  

Her Deceaser from the old KOF's was good too. In 02UM IIRC the light version pulled the opponent in closer to you like XIII Vice, then you was able to do LP to Death Downer on the staggered opponent from there if i remember right. Having played 2k2um in awhile.

She's very good in 13 with a good variety of options, I see I just have some adjusting to do before I fully understand her in 13.

[Milln]

Weird/cool stuff I found in the lab tonight:

Jump c, cl. C, light despair does close to half a guard gauge and, depending on when you do the despair hit, is safe on block.
The super flash on DM's and NeoMax messes with the multi-hits of EX Ebony Tears and more often than not causes the character to fall out of the lock.
Ebony Tears, especially the EX version can cross up(duh) under perfect circumstances to create unblockables.
Despair, done at about chest level and below combos into anything. Particularly quirky is B Metal Massacre which allows a far standing D link and does 209 damage.
Crossing up an opponent in the corner(say the right one) with Despair, any amount of immediate movement away from the corner(left in this case) puts them back in it. This allows for cute stuff like doing qcf+P and what comes out is you Rekka-ing them in the corner.
Ex Rekkas will never hit off of Ex Metal Massacre(even with the aid of cl. C)or any Despair version.
I hate far C.
Far B will reach the opponent after a blocked D Metal Massacre.
Despair puts you in the air on frame 1, it looks like. I could be wrong.

And some other Non-interesting stuff.  

[jinxhand]

I'm loving how Mature can be a serious threat in any position on a team. As point or mid, she builds enough meter for strong combos. As anchor, she's a monster... I managed to come up with a few combos, but this is one I like alot:

JINXHAND's KOF XIII Mature HD Combo Video

I managed to add another EX Ebony Tears, and finish the combo accordingly, but I can't remember the dmg off the top of my head. I'll write out a list of other combos I came across while practicing. Here's I can think of:

j.C, s.C, HD, delay s.C, qcb+C, qcb+C, qcb+C, HD Cancel, qcf,hcb+AC (3x), qcf,hcb+C, qcb+C (1 hit), HD Cancel, dp+A~A, qcb+B, Max Cancel, Neomax

There's a way to get her Heaven's Gate in there and then Neomax, but the timing is a little more strict, and you have to do 2 EX Ebony Tears vice 3. I believe this here does more than the one with the slight mod of adding Heaven's Gate, but I'm not sure at this moment. I'll have damages posted up eventually.

Oh yeah, cross up Despair into + into + works wonders. Mature can build enough meter to net a couple of these in 1 round, whether it's a crossup or not. Infact, connecting a close s.C into despair will allow the follow up, so I feel that's the best option if you want to do something other than rekkas.

This is very impractical, but Mature's capable of doing stupid things like EX Ebony Tears run to the other side, and throw out another EX Ebony Tears and it all combo, allowing her to do something else. Hell, there very well might be some purpose for it other than combo vid material, but don't see it as of now. She can be very flashy with her combos, and alot of them can take you to the corner from the other side, which is a plus.

Yeah Milln, I tried to find a combo using all EX moves for fun, and I came across that tidbit of EX rekkas not comboing off of EX Metal Massacre. I tried everything in the corner as well, but to no avail none of that worked...


EDIT: Here's a better HD combo imo:

JINXHAND's KOF XIII Mature HD Combo 2

[BiGGDaddyCane]

^Good Shizz Jinx

[jinxhand]

^Good Shizz Jinx

Thanks man... I'm totally loving how Mature can take full advantage of the game system, moreso than she could in 98, 02, and in XII... She's really definitely great at punishing, comboing at any point (or to the corner), and just being fancy overall...

I believe she can punish greatly where most people can't... Sure some instances might require meter, but there are quite a few that don't, especially punishing with far s.B (the one hit version), which can go straight into rekkas, super, or an HD combo pending the circumstance. I managed to find s.D works for some punishes, which to my knowledge should allow for an HD combo still... Based on the sessions I had last night, Mature can build enough to do HD combos consistently. I believe this is matchup dependent, but nevertheless, it's still possible...

I'll keep testing out stuff with her and post up...

[Milln]

You've made me want to contribute my own labwork, Jinx.

Best punish is as Ash said: close C to EX Metal Massacre ad infinitum to whatever ended.
Best ender I can come up with is off of rekka(9) drive cancel Qcb+D, qcb+B, qcb+B, close C for a reset.

I absolutely cannot stand her far C. It gets me in so much trouble. Awful hitbox and active frames, moves her forward so you beg to be hit, takes a year to come out... I really can't find any redeeming quality to this move.

B Metal Massacre(that I've affectionately started calling 'Claw Dash') is her least safe move from a frame data perspective. It's not punishable on block, but it puts you close enough for close C or Close B range. People will let you lock them down with this move. Every single person I've tried it on has allowed at least two reps before trying to get out. And when they do press a button, they get hit more often than not and then it's combo city.  It's strict timing on the follow ups so you can stuff their attempts, but I feel it's legit. 

Good damage off of a B poke or close b is EX Rekka drive cancel D Metal Massacre to whatever. Ill check damages when I get home to see which would be the most damaging option.

Question while I'm at work: does Nocturnal Lights cause hard knockdown?

[BiGGDaddyCane]

^Good Shizz Jinx

Thanks man... I'm totally loving how Mature can take full advantage of the game system, moreso than she could in 98, 02, and in XII... She's really definitely great at punishing, comboing at any point (or to the corner), and just being fancy overall...

I believe she can punish greatly where most people can't... Sure some instances might require meter, but there are quite a few that don't, especially punishing with far s.B (the one hit version), which can go straight into rekkas, super, or an HD combo pending the circumstance. I managed to find s.D works for some punishes, which to my knowledge should allow for an HD combo still... Based on the sessions I had last night, Mature can build enough to do HD combos consistently. I believe this is matchup dependent, but nevertheless, it's still possible...

I'll keep testing out stuff with her and post up...

Hell yea, Far St. is good. Just as Vice's is which I use to chain into her mayhem to score a knockdown which I love; and it has a nice start up. I use alot in my footsies; and as you pointed out it chains in to her rekkas & super.

[DarkGeneral]

You've made me want to contribute my own labwork, Jinx.

Best punish is as Ash said: close C to EX Metal Massacre ad infinitum to whatever ended.
Best ender I can come up with is off of rekka(9) drive cancel Qcb+D, qcb+B, qcb+B, close C for a reset.

I absolutely cannot stand her far C. It gets me in so much trouble. Awful hitbox and active frames, moves her forward so you beg to be hit, takes a year to come out... I really can't find any redeeming quality to this move.

B Metal Massacre(that I've affectionately started calling 'Claw Dash') is her least safe move from a frame data perspective. It's not punishable on block, but it puts you close enough for close C or Close B range. People will let you lock them down with this move. Every single person I've tried it on has allowed at least two reps before trying to get out. And when they do press a button, they get hit more often than not and then it's combo city.  It's strict timing on the follow ups so you can stuff their attempts, but I feel it's legit. 

Good damage off of a B poke or close b is EX Rekka drive cancel D Metal Massacre to whatever. Ill check damages when I get home to see which would be the most damaging option.

Question while I'm at work: does Nocturnal Lights cause hard knockdown?

I just started to incorporate qcb B into my attack strings and it is incredibly good. It leaves you in their face for stand C pressure and it's opened up my game for cracking good defensive play. Another nice thing about it is that it leaves you in position to go for crossup Despair. I'm a newbie but far C has helped me in some spacing instances where I want to begin pressure but I'm in a footsie battle. I used to use it after strings which end in far stand B.

My goto punish is cl.C xx Rekkas [dc], EX QCB K, cl.C xx rekkas and nets around 350 but it's not optimal. From what I found in training mode cl. C xx EX Rekkas [dc on 4th hit], QCB D, cl.C xx Rekkas deals 444.

By the way what are you guys doing for HD combos with only 2 or 3 meters? I'm doing rekka [dc on 3rd hit], qcb B [dc], rekkas ad nauseum into Neo.   

[Milln]

Close B, Ex Rekka(4) DC D Metal Massacre, close C, EX Metal Massacre, close C, Rekka
And
Close B, EX Rekka(4) DC D Metal Massacre, close C, Nocturnal Lights
Both do the same amount of damage: 457. I found this to be very cool.

It seems like anything over ten hits and no drive meter, it's more damaging to end a combo with Nocturnal Lights rather than Ex Metal Massacre, close C, Rekka because of proration. WITH a drive bar, though, you can Rekka DC D Metal Massacre, B Metal, B Metal, Close C for more damage and reset.

If you aren't confident you can B Metal off of a Despair, you can Close C and whiff a B Metal to put you in throw range to continue your pressure.

Awakening Blood hits in a diagonal line from (youll excuse me) just below the M of her name if she performs it on her side and then... Spatula's out on the ground on the other. A raw one can defeat jump ins on reaction as a last resort

@DarkGeneral: Cool Man. B Metal Massacre is a fine move.  I can't justify Drive canceling an EX Metal Massacre in the middle of a regular Rekka. It makes no sense from a proration standpoint for value on resourceses spent.  If you really want to drive cancel you can get similar damage for no meter by doing close c, rekka(9) DC qcb+D, qcb+b, qcb+b, close C.  Guaranteed to corner carry.  If you really want to spend a meter, you can either close c, Ex qcb+kick or close c, ex Rekka(5) DC qcb+D or DC on the 4th hit for something similar to the above.  She has a lot of creativity in her combos and I realize it more and more everyday.
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