Topic: Tier List

[desmond_kof]

I also think King is pretty high tier.

Compared to her 2002UM version (who was top tier or at least A class IMO), she pretty weak in this. She is only good for zoning, while I feel her close range abilities and options are lacking because she doesn't have that proximity command throw, nor does she have her standing overhead.

The only problems I have with Billy is his F+A with is safe on block and he can recovery quick after it. Online you can basically spam that move, and if someone tries to jump you can ex dp K, and that move is safe on block too (if you block it, someone can throw out his d.b's), so you gotta move outta the way before he lands. His J.CD has good priority as well as his J.C which has good range diagonally.

I wish Robert had his F+A overhead like he had in past games, that would really help h
is offensive options. Plus I wish his hcf K didn't have so much slow start up, and didn't actually have an whiff animation.

[Diavle]

Shen was easily top five in the arcade version, he was used far more than Kyo, Iori and Elizabeth. And to be honest if I had to gauge who delivered the most pain overall during my 1+ year of watching match vids it would probably be him.

Compared to her 2002UM version (who was top tier or at least A class IMO), she pretty weak in this. She is only good for zoning, while I feel her close range abilities and options are lacking because she doesn't have that proximity command throw, nor does she have her standing overhead.

King has excellent close range pressure thanks to her df+D and fireball, she can really lock ppl down. She also benefits heavily from the drive cancel system. What makes her solid is that she can be very effective at close range and at the same time has one of the best zoning games of the cast. Easily has one of the best low hitting attacks in the game imo, df+D is fast, combos and makes her hit box low enough to make it a good anti-air.

[ELTRO]

Shen was easily top five in the arcade version, he was used far more than Kyo, Iori and Elizabeth. And to be honest if I had to gauge who delivered the most pain overall during my 1+ year of watching match vids it would probably be him.

Compared to her 2002UM version (who was top tier or at least A class IMO), she pretty weak in this. She is only good for zoning, while I feel her close range abilities and options are lacking because she doesn't have that proximity command throw, nor does she have her standing overhead.

King has excellent close range pressure thanks to her df+D and fireball, she can really lock ppl down. She also benefits heavily from the drive cancel system. What makes her solid is that she can be very effective at close range and at the same time has one of the best zoning games of the cast. Easily has one of the best low hitting attacks in the game imo, df+D is fast, combos and makes her hit box low enough to make it a good anti-air.

I think King's slide into fire ball is good but you can guard cancel roll for max punishment since you're rolling behind her if it's in the corner. I think she's good but I kind of agree with Desmond about King's close range game.

[Diavle]

Just check out some high level King play, like the Answer's at NEC or Bala's in the arcade version, and you'll see what I mean about her close range game. Its what makes her dangerous.

Its all about mixing it up, if you do the same df+D into fireball all day of course you will get punished. Its worth mentioning that the opponent does need meter to punish.

[ELTRO]

I was there when I saw the Answer play during NEC (one man hype guy), but look at it this way. Jwongg and Banana Ken were new to the game so they had no idea how to deal with her. But lets say if the skill level between both players were high and one was a King player the other player will have better options since he knows how to play against her. Not disagreeing with you or anything but her pressure is far from perfect. Much respect to the Answer though.

[Diavle]

No one's pressure is perfect, kinda the point of balance. You gotta take the good and work around the bad.

[ELTRO]

Still though getting GC roll while the fireball comes out may be a gamble but it can change the tide of the match. Also since meter building is faster I think King player will be better off zoning and capitalizing on mistakes but that's my opinion. Let's see how her strategy develops later on.

[Raynex]

Just check out some high level King play, like the Answer's at NEC or Bala's in the arcade version, and you'll see what I mean about her close range game. Its what makes her dangerous.

Its all about mixing it up, if you do the same df+D into fireball all day of course you will get punished. Its worth mentioning that the opponent does need meter to punish.

Actually, because st.B, df+D xx Venom Strike usually produces a Trap Shot accidentally, most players delay the df+D xx Venom Strike so its timed as a late cancel. This gives the player enough time to return the stick to neutral and perform the Venom Strike correctly. The magic of this is that late cancelling the df+D doesn't affect whether the Venom Strike combos or not, because the slide itself has such great hit-stun.

There is a gap between the slide and the late cancel Venom Strike. If you perform an invincible move during this time, you beat King's Venom Strike (1 frame throws can work too). If the King DOES NOT like to late cancel during blockstrings and you attempt a reversal, nothing will come out because it is a TRUE blockstring. Essentially, it's like a ghetto option select - it carries no real risk for the defender of King's pressure. Reward if it's late cancelled, continued block if its immediately cancelled.

King's post Venom Strike (on block) pressure is fairly weak as well. st.C and st.D are both jump checks, and completely whiff on crouchers. Not to mention she is not at frame advantage after one of her blockstrings. With this in mind, most character's cr.Bs either beat King's next move or avoid her jump checks and punish her. Before I forget, she's absolutely horrid on defense as well. EX Trap Shot is the only tool that can save her from overwhelming pressure.

edit: But I still think she's high tier. Amazing zoning, great mobility, annoying pressure, one of the best fireballs, great metered moves, good corner game, good meterless anti-air, and Slide!

[LouisCipher]

I think King is mid high personally. Zoning is her strongest suite but to do serious damage she needs meter.

[desmond_kof]

It's all about multiple options, I'd say. If you opponent is blocking your normals all day, you can do her proximity throw, or empty jump into it. Plus, if she had her standing overhead, it would be a great mixup tool from her df+D.

Yeah, can do what she can with what she has now close range, but if she had what she has in 2002UM with what she has now, she would be a MONSTER. She now almost like a stripped down version of how she was in 98UM (EX King) but with just more zoning capabilities.

[ELTRO]

Desmond in 2k2 um does King far C hit crouchers or does it whiff?

[Saitsuofleaves]

As of now most of us agree that EX Iori and Normal Kyo is pretty much top tier. With EX Iori having incredible damage setup from meterless combos from his rekkas, his OTGs and his command grabs (the EX Kototsuki In and Scum Gale) give lots of reset, and OTG opportunies. Normal Kyo has a lot of tools in his disposal that even with the loss of his safe Kotutsuki You he still is strong with impressive normals, hit confirms and strong metered or meterless combos at his disposal. HD well all characters are beasts with HD. BUT Tier lists are not set in stone and seeing these two are the most popular characters the matchup will be very familiar. Sorry for wall of text but I have a feeling that Claw Iori might go lower he seems to be one dimensional. That's just me and I main Claw Iori with Fireball Kyo and Yuri.

I don't agree with that.  Kyo yes, I've been saying he's probably the best in the game (new tech and Mr. Karate notwithstanding) but EX Iori has and is still a bit overhyped.  He's a very solid character but like I've been saying, I don't think he takes complete advantage of the XIII system which limits him a bit. 

Claw Iori is a bit one-dimensional, but when he can perform that dimension so well, it doesn't matter.  He's usually put at anchor, where zoners are rarely put other than maybe King, so any weakness against that is limited.  He does ridiculous damage that's hard to drop, and many ways to put you into that damage.  When he's in on you, it's not a matter of if he will open you up, it's a matter of when, and when he does, you're dead.  Game's never out of grasp as long as he's on the end of your team.

[Ryudo]

Has anyone played with Nests Kyo yet. Im sure majority of people are playing on the PS3 however if any of you have him for the 360. Wouldn't you mind explaining how hes different from his other iterations, compare him to XIII Kyo and or how he stands in the tier list.

[Saitsuofleaves]

He's 98 Kyo only with Orochinagi back and a NeoMax and the ability to combo Aragami off of lights.

And he's not as good as XIII Kyo.  I like playing him more, but XIII Kyo laps him pretty easily.

[powerfercs]

EX Kyo as of now has a lot of bad matchups mainly RED Kick vs. Grapplers is pretty much dead EX Kyo.