Author Topic: Tier lists and Character Discussion Thread  (Read 116567 times)

davidkong07

  • Scion of Flame
  • ****
  • Posts: 304
    • View Profile
Re: Tier lists and Character Discussion Thread
« Reply #285 on: July 24, 2012, 08:10:05 PM »
Sounds like you want a broken character (all his tools plus having them safe plus having high damage off everything) instead of what we have now , a balanced one.

I'm definitely not saying I want a broken character. I'm simply pointing out all of Robert's weaknesses, because I was asked to do so.

But, IMO, some things definitely need to be buffed for Robert to be considered mid tier (in this game meaning A-).

1. EX lighting legs need to build the opponent 1/3 of the meter that it currently does.
2. The window for drive canceling C uppercut into dive kick needs to be 2 or 3 frames longer
3. The startup of regular lighting legs needs to be faster so that it can connect mid screen after Drive canceled C uppercut to dive kick
4. Drive canceling regular lighting legs should grant a juggle state.
5. Stand D should have faster recovery, by 2 or 3 frames.
6. The last hit of EX Ranbu, where Robert flys up and kicks you, should be Max cancelable in HD.

These changes are all fair and would instantly give Robert consistent midscreen HD combo options. Stand D would actually give him a solid ground game with less risk.

(sigh) A man can wish... In any case, do any of you actually main Robert? If so, are you guys tournament players? I really get frustrated when I hear everyone saying that Robert is good, when in fact his many tools aren't as good as people think they are. At least he's not as bad as Mai! hahaha
« Last Edit: July 24, 2012, 08:28:44 PM by davidkong07 »
In it to win it!

davidkong07

  • Scion of Flame
  • ****
  • Posts: 304
    • View Profile
Re: Tier lists and Character Discussion Thread
« Reply #286 on: July 24, 2012, 08:20:06 PM »
Mind telling me what combo this is? And does it work midscreen? I find this hard to believe, as someone who has spent tons of hours trying to find optimal HDs with Robert.

Works anywhere, HD and 3 bars:

jD, sC, f+B, DP+A or C [Super Cancel] Ranbu, Neomax (max cancel on final hit of Ranbu)

If you want a bit of extra damage then you can DC into a fireball after the DP before super canceling into Ranbu.

Over 800dmg iirc. Can also be started via lows using the hit confirm Tyrant mentioned above and also using just low Bs.

This combo actually is pretty good, thanks! It does 757, but you're right, it can be done anywhere and doesn't build the opponent that much meter. But still, in comparison to high tier character's HD combos, Robert's are still lacking. The standard for midscreen 3 bars plus HD is around 850-900 for top tier.
In it to win it!

Dandy J

  • Rising Dragon
  • **
  • Posts: 59
    • View Profile
Re: Tier lists and Character Discussion Thread
« Reply #287 on: July 24, 2012, 08:37:48 PM »
is there going to be kof at the runback this week?

selfReg

  • Scion of Flame
  • ****
  • Posts: 292
  • Plateau of Invincibility
    • View Profile
    • Squirrel UK
Re: Tier lists and Character Discussion Thread
« Reply #288 on: July 24, 2012, 08:39:05 PM »
I think one of the commentators at last week's said so.
KOFXIII: N-Robert, Ryo, R2 Takuma


davidkong07

  • Scion of Flame
  • ****
  • Posts: 304
    • View Profile
Re: Tier lists and Character Discussion Thread
« Reply #289 on: July 24, 2012, 08:41:11 PM »
There will be provided enough people show up. For the past two weeks the numbers haven't justified having a tournament, because of the post evo burn out.
In it to win it!

SPLIPH

  • Strongest Tiger
  • ***
  • Posts: 110
    • View Profile
Re: Tier lists and Character Discussion Thread
« Reply #290 on: July 24, 2012, 11:48:15 PM »
thanks for the write up on robert i really appreciate it. i didnt know i could punish his lightning leg at all i thought it was safe. i basically get abused by his classic fireball / lightning leg / divekick tactics that i can never seem to punish. ive been completely oblivious to this match up. do you know the min and max frames that divekick is - on block? divekick sometimes ive punished with cr. B, other times it seems like i cant.

Diavle

  • Legendary Wolf
  • *****
  • Posts: 1128
    • View Profile
Re: Tier lists and Character Discussion Thread
« Reply #291 on: July 25, 2012, 12:10:50 AM »
This combo actually is pretty good, thanks! It does 757, but you're right, it can be done anywhere and doesn't build the opponent that much meter. But still, in comparison to high tier character's HD combos, Robert's are still lacking. The standard for midscreen 3 bars plus HD is around 850-900 for top tier.

I'm home now so can do some confirming:

jD, sC, f+B, HD, sC, f+B, DP+A [DC] qcf+A [SC] Ranbu, Neomax

Does 855 dmg.

AirLancer

  • Strongest Tiger
  • ***
  • Posts: 109
    • View Profile
Re: Tier lists and Character Discussion Thread
« Reply #292 on: July 25, 2012, 12:12:12 AM »
Mind telling me what combo this is? And does it work midscreen? I find this hard to believe, as someone who has spent tons of hours trying to find optimal HDs with Robert.

Works anywhere, HD and 3 bars:

jD, sC, f+B, DP+A or C [Super Cancel] Ranbu, Neomax (max cancel on final hit of Ranbu)

If you want a bit of extra damage then you can DC into a fireball after the DP before super canceling into Ranbu.

Over 800dmg iirc. Can also be started via lows using the hit confirm Tyrant mentioned above and also using just low Bs.

This combo actually is pretty good, thanks! It does 757, but you're right, it can be done anywhere and doesn't build the opponent that much meter. But still, in comparison to high tier character's HD combos, Robert's are still lacking. The standard for midscreen 3 bars plus HD is around 850-900 for top tier.

http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/kof-xiii-robert-garcia.164109/

choysauce

  • Strongest Tiger
  • ***
  • Posts: 106
    • View Profile
Re: Tier lists and Character Discussion Thread
« Reply #293 on: July 25, 2012, 02:06:31 AM »
(sigh) A man can wish... In any case, do any of you actually main Robert? If so, are you guys tournament players? I really get frustrated when I hear everyone saying that Robert is good, when in fact his many tools aren't as good as people think they are. At least he's not as bad as Mai! hahaha

I think mai is alot better than you give her credit david, have you played chaotic blue's mai?

AirLancer

  • Strongest Tiger
  • ***
  • Posts: 109
    • View Profile
Re: Tier lists and Character Discussion Thread
« Reply #294 on: July 25, 2012, 10:08:42 AM »
Also, EX Geneikyaku (Lightning Legs) only builds the opponent about 33% of 1 drive. Of all the "really fast multiple hit" type moves though, it does build the most meter for the opponent. Ryo's EX punches build a good amount of meter for his opponent too nearly 1/2 a meter, as does Kensou's.

Mr. Karate's however, barely builds any meter for the opponent (this character...)

As for tournies, unfortunately I don't get the chance to go to any due to my duties. Except for EVO, where I had a chat with you, David, and went 4-2 (1-1 winners, 3-1 losers).

When I get back to the States I'll definitely have to attend more events. ...And learn to drive...

« Last Edit: July 25, 2012, 03:38:20 PM by AirLancer »

t3h mAsTarOth...!

  • Legendary Wolf
  • *****
  • Posts: 518
    • View Profile
Re: Tier lists and Character Discussion Thread
« Reply #295 on: July 25, 2012, 01:15:50 PM »
Robert is A+... Korean tier list is korean... If you notice some of their personal choices are really dumb... Like Duo/Mature as top-tier... Robert is meant to be played as a battery or second... If you play him as an anchor then yes he isn't that great... He is like benimaru and yuri... A character with every tool does not suck...
« Last Edit: July 25, 2012, 04:00:21 PM by t3h mAsTarOth...! »
KOFXIII - Raiden, Billy, Mai, Karate, Kim, Ralf, Ryo, Robert

SC 1-5 - Astaroth

SaMsTarOth t3h mAsTarOth of AsTarOth...!

Kane317

  • Administrator
  • Legendary Wolf
  • *****
  • Posts: 2990
    • View Profile
Re: Tier lists and Character Discussion Thread
« Reply #296 on: July 25, 2012, 08:01:33 PM »
Of course Robert has every tool, but I dunno about putting him in the same sentence as Beni and Yuri...
« Last Edit: July 25, 2012, 08:04:10 PM by Kane317 »

davidkong07

  • Scion of Flame
  • ****
  • Posts: 304
    • View Profile
Re: Tier lists and Character Discussion Thread
« Reply #297 on: July 26, 2012, 01:23:25 AM »
(sigh) A man can wish... In any case, do any of you actually main Robert? If so, are you guys tournament players? I really get frustrated when I hear everyone saying that Robert is good, when in fact his many tools aren't as good as people think they are. At least he's not as bad as Mai! hahaha

I think mai is alot better than you give her credit david, have you played chaotic blue's mai?

I have played chaotic blue's Mai. No disrespect to him, but my opinion on Mai hasn't changed.
In it to win it!

davidkong07

  • Scion of Flame
  • ****
  • Posts: 304
    • View Profile
Re: Tier lists and Character Discussion Thread
« Reply #298 on: July 26, 2012, 01:26:48 AM »
This combo actually is pretty good, thanks! It does 757, but you're right, it can be done anywhere and doesn't build the opponent that much meter. But still, in comparison to high tier character's HD combos, Robert's are still lacking. The standard for midscreen 3 bars plus HD is around 850-900 for top tier.

I'm home now so can do some confirming:

jD, sC, f+B, HD, sC, f+B, DP+A [DC] qcf+A [SC] Ranbu, Neomax

Does 855 dmg.

Oh I see, I was using fwd B Fwd A into HD, which scales it more.
In it to win it!

davidkong07

  • Scion of Flame
  • ****
  • Posts: 304
    • View Profile
Re: Tier lists and Character Discussion Thread
« Reply #299 on: July 26, 2012, 01:57:51 AM »
Also, EX Geneikyaku (Lightning Legs) only builds the opponent about 33% of 1 drive. Of all the "really fast multiple hit" type moves though, it does build the most meter for the opponent. Ryo's EX punches build a good amount of meter for his opponent too nearly 1/2 a meter, as does Kensou's.

Mr. Karate's however, barely builds any meter for the opponent (this character...)

As for tournies, unfortunately I don't get the chance to go to any due to my duties. Except for EVO, where I had a chat with you, David, and went 4-2 (1-1 winners, 3-1 losers).

When I get back to the States I'll definitely have to attend more events. ...And learn to drive...



AirLancer, I finally took the time to look over your Robert thread. That's some really really good stuff that I had not considered before. haha I feel kinda blown up, there is obviously a lot more to this character than I really considered. Although it a lot of it seems extremely situational, I suppose we still need to wait to see a Robert player really take it to the next level before I, or anyone, can really make judgements on tier.
In it to win it!