Author Topic: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!  (Read 50368 times)

davidkong07

  • Scion of Flame
  • ****
  • Posts: 304
    • View Profile
David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« on: February 07, 2012, 06:00:41 AM »
Hello all,

My name is David Kong. I'm a tournament player in SoCal, and KoFXIII is my main game. I'm not a top player by any means, but I'd like to think that I know a thing or two about how the game works.

In any case, I'd like to volunteer my knowledge and time to answer any and all of your questions pertaining to the game. There is a TON of great info floating around wikis and such, but I know that having a personal guide can be much easier than browsing online for info.

Ask me anything about KoFXIII or playing competitively in general! If I don't know the answer, I will consult someone who does and get back to you. Please refer any of your noob friends here as well, as I will patiently answer your questions personally, no matter how stupid they are! lol

I play King, Vice, Robert, and Leona, so any detailed character questions about them I can probably answer. Other than that, my character specific knowledge is limited, so I may or may not be able to provide answers directly. But, I will definitely try to find out for you! This can be a learning process for all of us haha.

This is my effort to contribute and educate the community, so please don't hesitate to ask anything! I specialize in pointing beginners down the right path, so please have an open mind, because I'm only here to help YOU!
« Last Edit: February 07, 2012, 06:03:39 AM by davidkong07 »
In it to win it!

thec0re3

  • Strongest Tiger
  • ***
  • Posts: 115
    • View Profile
    • Fighting Games Online
Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2012, 07:44:30 AM »
Ok I'll bite ^_^

1. What do you think are the best situations for a standing normal hit confirm into command normal combo.

2. What is the best situation for using a CD attack? How often should you be using them during a match.


davidkong07

  • Scion of Flame
  • ****
  • Posts: 304
    • View Profile
Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2012, 08:25:43 AM »
Ok I'll bite ^_^

1. What do you think are the best situations for a standing normal hit confirm into command normal combo.

2. What is the best situation for using a CD attack? How often should you be using them during a match.




1. Well, the absolute BEST situation to use standing close C or D hit confirms into command normal (and presumably into a full combo) would be for a punish! If you ever block something that is unsafe enough or you see a DP whiff in front of you, then your goal should be to hit confirm with a beefy standing normal into a command normal. As you may know, almost all command normals are cancelable into special moves if canceled into during a string. This will give you optimal damage as well as opportunities to drive cancel/ HD activate for massive damage.

Besides punishing, standing normals which lead into command normals are usually landed while playing footsies. If you have the presence of mind to hit confirm your stand normals because your opponent has whiffed something very predictable, then this would also be a great situation to cancel into command normals and follow with a full combo.


2. The use of CD attacks is VERY character specific. In KoF13, every character can WHIFF CANCEL or regular cancel stand CD into ANY grounded special move or desperation move. This mechanic is MUCH MORE useful for characters who MOVE FORWARD during their stand CD animations, because moving forward gives you the ability to KARA CANCEL your special moves. Examples of characters that benefit from this are Vice and EX Kyo. By whiff canceling stand CD into a special move, these characters get extra range on whatever special move they do.

For example, Vice's sleeve attack (Decide) has 3 versions: B version, D version, and EX version. All three of these versions have a very specific range. With the use of whiff cancel stand CD, Vice now has SIX different ranges of her sleeve attack, because she can add a very specific range to all three versions of this attack with her canceled CD, giving her a much more dynamic and unpredictable neutral game.

This happens with other characters as well, to varying degrees. It is up to you to find out what can be done with your characters' whiff cancel CD attacks.

Besides canceling, some CD attacks also grant special properties to the character. For example, both King and Clark's stand CD make them airborne, so that they can avoid SOME low hitting attacks. You can use this to your advantage while playing footsies, and catch your opponent off guard.

It is also VERY IMPORTANT to note that COUNTER HIT CD attacks, whether STANDING OR JUMPING, grant you a juggle state so that you can follow up with any attack. Again, this benefits some characters more than others. Vice and Shen can get HD combos off of counter hit CD, while other characters can only get another jumping attack.

The bottom line, however, is that you should use CD attacks in the same manner as you use any other move: ONLY IN SITUATIONS WHERE THEY ARE USEFUL. Learn what your character specifically can do with standing or jump CD, based on the hitboxes and frame data, and STAY SAFE.


I hope this was helpful. If you have any further questions, please feel free to ask!
« Last Edit: February 07, 2012, 08:28:08 AM by davidkong07 »
In it to win it!

thec0re3

  • Strongest Tiger
  • ***
  • Posts: 115
    • View Profile
    • Fighting Games Online
Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2012, 05:13:48 PM »
Definitely going to make use of this advice thanks.

One more question..

What is a good strategy when facing an opponent whose rush down is difficult to deal with especially in the corner. Good example is against EX Kyo. I faced an opponent was constantly barraging me with high and low attacks and some of his highs consisted of his command normal down+C.

I know that standing lp beats a hop, hop beats a low attack, and low beats a standing but in this situation it is difficult to guess so what am I looking for in these cases. I know that its also possible that some of his move may have priority correct?

davidkong07

  • Scion of Flame
  • ****
  • Posts: 304
    • View Profile
Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2012, 05:26:33 AM »

What is a good strategy when facing an opponent whose rush down is difficult to deal with especially in the corner. Good example is against EX Kyo. I faced an opponent was constantly barraging me with high and low attacks and some of his highs consisted of his command normal down+C.

I know that standing lp beats a hop, hop beats a low attack, and low beats a standing but in this situation it is difficult to guess so what am I looking for in these cases. I know that its also possible that some of his move may have priority correct?

Excellent question!

First off, you should always remember that EVERY character's rush down will be VERY difficult to deal with in the corner if you are facing a skilled player. This is because when you are in the corner, you lack options for proper spacing, whereas your opponent doesn't lack any options. Obviously, this is very advantageous for the player NOT in the corner. So, when approaching this situation the first thing to do is to ACKNOWLEDGE the fact that you are at a disadvantage, and RESPECT the fact that your opponent has more options than you.

Second, just because you are in the corner DOES NOT mean your fundamentals are any less important. You should STILL be utilizing all of the options available to you to create a favorable situation. Many players struggle in the corner because they panic and desperately try to jump or roll out, often without paying attention to staying safe. Jumping and rolling are still VERY valid options in the corner, but as always, make sure you're doing it in a way that is safe. WATCH and REACT to what your opponent is doing, rather than making decisions out of panic.

Third, remember that GUARD CANCEL CD IS THE GREAT EQUALIZER. What I mean by this is, no matter how skilled your opponent is at rushing you down, if you can block even one close range attack, you can spend one meter to get out of the corner with a guard cancel CD (blowback) attack. If done correctly, THIS WILL WORK 100% OF THE TIME. Just be careful to not do this against very shallow jump/hop in attacks or attacks with excellent range, as your guard cancel CD will whiff, and you can even be punished for it! Examples of attacks that you SHOULD NOT guard cancel CD are Mr. Karate's invisible palm, and EX Kyo's rekka at max range. As a rule of thumb, the most reliable attacks to guard cancel CD are CLOSE RANGE GROUNDED NORMALS. Watch for the first grounded hit of your opponent's block string, and guard cancel CD that sucker!

If you are having specific problems against certain characters, like EX Kyo, the first thing to do is to remember what you're getting hit by, and learn everything you can about that move. It's great that you remember Kyo's command normal, jump + down C, is hard to deal with. I can tell you from first hand experience that Kyo's jump + down C has an amazing hitbox, is extremely fast, is really hard to anti air with a normal, and can cross up easily! It's really really good. But that's not unique to EX Kyo. Every character in the game has something really really good. But, in this case, knowing is half the battle! Think about it this way: your opponent knows that move is really good. He's going to use it. Observe when he uses it, and how he wants to use it. This is the essence of "downloading" a player. When you have a grip on his jump + down C habits, you can make a statement by choosing an option that specifically beats it, such as a super or uppercut. Doing this once or twice makes an EXPLICIT STATEMENT that you know what's up, you're expecting him to jump down C, and you're ready for it. Fighting games are an intellectual competition. Once you have made this statement clear to your opponent, I'll bet you he stops abusing that move. At the very worst, you can at least block the attack more often, which is great as well. Of course, this is MUCH easier said than done, and these type of skills take countless hours to develop. But that is why being good at this game is so rewarding to begin with, right? ;)

One final note, the term "priority" should be AVOIDED at all costs. It is very misleading, and technically does not exist in most fighting games. When players talk about "priority", they are actually talking about specific interactions which occur due to hit box and frame data properties. For instance, EX Kyo's rekka does not beat your standing normals because it has "priority", but rather because it has guard point, which means there is no hittable hurtbox on a portion of his body during the move's active frames. K's crouch B does not beat most other character's crouch B because it has "priority", but rather because it has fewer startup frames than most crouch B attacks. "Priority" sounds like it implies that move X will always beat move Y in every situation, which is NEVER true! There is always an answer for every situation. I hope this was helpful!

In it to win it!

DJMirror949

  • Strongest Tiger
  • ***
  • Posts: 236
  • Just move along, nothing to read here.
    • View Profile
Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2012, 06:52:57 AM »
So...Yo...I'm a scrub and Mr. KOF is trolling the shit out of me...What can I do to stop Mr. KOF's Ash Combo? Do I just buy him a beer to stop?

LazieFreddy

  • Mod Team
  • Strongest Tiger
  • *****
  • Posts: 227
    • View Profile
Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2012, 07:57:43 AM »
Hey David, thanks for taking the time to answer our questions.

I have a quick question.  If you know your opponent is using the the closeC/D option select, is there a way to punish them for that or do you just have to give up the empty hop mix ups?

davidkong07

  • Scion of Flame
  • ****
  • Posts: 304
    • View Profile
Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2012, 08:28:56 AM »
So...Yo...I'm a scrub and Mr. KOF is trolling the shit out of me...What can I do to stop Mr. KOF's Ash Combo? Do I just buy him a beer to stop?

Unfortunately, there are only 3 ways of stopping Mr. Kof from doing his Ash combo on you:


1. Be better than he is at KoF.

2. Introduce him to your attractive Asian sister.

3. Stop jumping.

Beer only works on me and Hell Pockets. Beer will only work on Jose and The Answer if it is Tecate, and Team Chaos can be defeated by too much Jose Cuervo (aka NeoMaXX).

Mr. KoF is immune to beer because he is Vietnamese.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2012, 08:41:17 AM by davidkong07 »
In it to win it!

Reiki.Kito

  • Legendary Wolf
  • *****
  • Posts: 1432
    • View Profile
Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2012, 10:13:39 AM »
Hey David, thanks for taking the time to answer our questions.

I have a quick question.  If you know your opponent is using the the closeC/D option select, is there a way to punish them for that or do you just have to give up the empty hop mix ups?

Well, I'm not David, but if you're both at neutral, you can make it so you jump in at a distance to make them go for that option select. Like land within range of them, but not close enough for their close C or D to hit. Once you do, land and poke them low. Your low normals, at a distance, can beat out their option select because they can't throw you, block, or counterhit you with the right option (most far C/D will get beat out by a quick low D.)

LazieFreddy

  • Mod Team
  • Strongest Tiger
  • *****
  • Posts: 227
    • View Profile
Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2012, 11:18:52 AM »
Well, I'm not David, but if you're both at neutral, you can make it so you jump in at a distance to make them go for that option select. Like land within range of them, but not close enough for their close C or D to hit. Once you do, land and poke them low. Your low normals, at a distance, can beat out their option select because they can't throw you, block, or counterhit you with the right option (most far C/D will get beat out by a quick low D.)

I'm not sure if I understand how to do this, I think jumps/hops that land out of range are kind of easy to tell?

Reiki.Kito

  • Legendary Wolf
  • *****
  • Posts: 1432
    • View Profile
Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2012, 05:32:06 PM »
Well, I'm not David, but if you're both at neutral, you can make it so you jump in at a distance to make them go for that option select. Like land within range of them, but not close enough for their close C or D to hit. Once you do, land and poke them low. Your low normals, at a distance, can beat out their option select because they can't throw you, block, or counterhit you with the right option (most far C/D will get beat out by a quick low D.)

I'm not sure if I understand how to do this, I think jumps/hops that land out of range are kind of easy to tell?

You're keeping in mind that this person is holding back and trying to press C at the right time (Or mash it) in order to hit you, keep you away. Best thing to do is to give them something to react to.

davidkong07

  • Scion of Flame
  • ****
  • Posts: 304
    • View Profile
Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2012, 05:23:01 AM »
Hey David, thanks for taking the time to answer our questions.

I have a quick question.  If you know your opponent is using the the closeC/D option select, is there a way to punish them for that or do you just have to give up the empty hop mix ups?

I apologize for taking so long to respond to your question, it is a very detailed issue and I wanted to make sure I cover as much as I can.

The short answer to your question is: Sometimes. If your opponent is using the close C/D option select throw in the IDEAL SITUATIONS, as far as I know, there is nothing you can do to explicitly PUNISH it. However, there is a common situation where it can be punished, which I will explain below.

First, it is important to know that there is much that can be done to NEUTRALIZE the option select once you become more AWARE of the situations it is used in. I will first divide the situations in which you will encounter this option select into OFFENSIVE SITUATIONS and DEFENSIVE SITUATIONS.

When you are on the OFFENSE, your opponent is likely to use this option select to throw you when:

A. You have made them block a shallow jump in (an attack that was blocked very high), and there was not enough block stun from your attack to allow you to follow with a true block string after you land. Between the time you jumped in and the instant you start your grounded block string, you will get grabbed if they are close enough.

B. (Like you mentioned above) You go for an empty hop/jump in mixup. If they press C or D faster than you initiate your mixup, you get grabbed (which can be likely, because it takes you a few frames to land).

Believe it or not, both of the above situations are identical for your opponent. Their mentality is "He jumped, I'm going to block whatever he does in the air, and try to throw him right when he lands." This is a good option select because even if you predict the throw and try to jump or backdash away, your opponent's standing C or D will come out and probably anti air you. The absolute BEST way to get them to stop doing this is to DO TRUE BLOCK STRINGS. You may wonder how this will help your empty hop mixups, but bear with me and I will explain.

To do true block strings after a blocked jump/hop in, you must MAKE SURE that your air attack is blocked LOW ENOUGH. Now, remember that it's not necessary to make them block the jump in as low as possible, just make sure that your jump in is blocked LOW ENOUGH. By making them block your jump/hop in relatively low, you are decreasing the time between when you land and the end of the block stun induced by your attack. If you are blocked too high, it will take more time for you to land than it will for your opponent to do something (in this case, throw you). Another way to obtain the same result is to jump in with your air CD (blowback) attack. Air CD for all characters grants them very significant block stun, and give you more time to follow with a true block string once you have landed. IF THERE IS NO FRAME GAP BETWEEN WHEN YOU JUMP IN AND WHEN YOU START YOUR GROUNDED STRING, YOU CAN'T BE GRABBED!

You will find that doing this will make your empty hop mixups more effective, because your opponent will be trained into thinking "He jumped. If I block his jump in he's going to do a full block string. I can't grab him, I have to play defense." Now keep in mind, THE DEFINITION OF A MIXUP INCLUDES ASPECTS OF BEING UNPREDICTABLE AND TAKING RISK. If your opponent is predicting your empty hop mixups accurately, then the issue does not reside with the C/D option select, but rather with your own mixup game.

When you are on DEFENSE, your opponent will commonly use this option select against you after a hard knockdown. The proper way to do this is to approach the grounded player, hold back, and then press C or D at a slightly delayed timing. If the defending player wakes up with a reversal, the option select will block because the C or D didn't come out before the reversal induced block stun. If the defender wakes up and blocks, the option select will throw. If the defending player back dashes or jumps on wakeup, the option select will anti air with stand C or D. The benefit of being the defending player is that he has 11 frames of grab invincibility after a hard knockdown, making the option select punishable. Your two options in the situation are to wake up with a command grab or a fast low attack. Remember that you cannot do a normal throw from a crouching position. This means that the option selecting player has to be standing. Therefore, any fast low attack will beat the option select if you are facing it AFTER A HARD KNOCKDOWN. A wakeup command grab will also work, for (hopefully) obvious reasons. As far as I know, this is the only situation where you will be able to consistently punish this option select, even if it is performed correctly.

I hope this was helpful! Let me know if you have any further questions!
« Last Edit: February 09, 2012, 09:33:33 AM by davidkong07 »
In it to win it!

DJMirror949

  • Strongest Tiger
  • ***
  • Posts: 236
  • Just move along, nothing to read here.
    • View Profile
Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2012, 06:05:09 AM »
So...Yo...I'm a scrub and Mr. KOF is trolling the shit out of me...What can I do to stop Mr. KOF's Ash Combo? Do I just buy him a beer to stop?

Unfortunately, there are only 3 ways of stopping Mr. Kof from doing his Ash combo on you:


1. Be better than he is at KoF.

2. Introduce him to your attractive Asian sister.

3. Stop jumping.

Beer only works on me and Hell Pockets. Beer will only work on Jose and The Answer if it is Tecate, and Team Chaos can be defeated by too much Jose Cuervo (aka NeoMaXX).

Mr. KoF is immune to beer because he is Vietnamese.


So in that case....What's the match up of Mr. KOF vs Jack Daniel or any hard drinks? 0-10 in favor of drinks? Sadly I'm the only child in my family so I have no sister to offer... I have to jump because Mr. KOF is staring into my soul and use some jedi mind tricks to force me to jump.



PS As I'm typing this, I can see him yell "OCV" in my mind while he waits. No, he doesn't sleep, he just waits.

davidkong07

  • Scion of Flame
  • ****
  • Posts: 304
    • View Profile
Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2012, 09:35:40 AM »
So in that case....What's the match up of Mr. KOF vs Jack Daniel or any hard drinks? 0-10 in favor of drinks? Sadly I'm the only child in my family so I have no sister to offer... I have to jump because Mr. KOF is staring into my soul and use some jedi mind tricks to force me to jump.



PS As I'm typing this, I can see him yell "OCV" in my mind while he waits. No, he doesn't sleep, he just waits.


The match up between Mr. KoF and Jack Daniels is 5-5. Sometimes, Mr. KoF wins. Other times, Jack Daniels wins. It goes back and forth.
In it to win it!

Titus Groan

  • New Challenger
  • *
  • Posts: 9
    • View Profile
Re: David Kong is here to answer your noob questions!
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2012, 01:30:55 AM »
I haven't played fighting games in a long long time (and before was never serious). Anyways, one of the hurdles I'm trying to climb is attempting to put together a team for KOF, so here are some of my questions:

Why did you pick Robert over Ryo? Is there any character similar to Chris from '97-'98? And when forming a team, is it better to diversify (ex: grappler, zone, balanced) or just pick what appeals to you?