KOF XIII 7th General Thread: Evo 2012 countdown edition

[LazieFreddy]

I actually hope they don't add any more characters in XIII for balance reasons.  We are lucky now that the console/climax build seem to be very balanced, even though all the DLC/console characters seem to be slighty better than the rest of the cast. 

Who knows what's gonna happen when they start introducing new characters?  Fighting games are notoriously hard to balance.  Does anyone remember pre-2012 SF4 AE?  SS tier Yun, Yang? The last thing we want is OP characters like arcade K' and Raiden.  Sure, they could always release a balance patch, but that will take a while, and we still have to endure a period of time with the OP characters.

[venusandeve]

@Solid: +1

@Lazie: Saiki and billy don't seem that strong to me but the 3 EX charas seem broken as hell to me (compared to how ballanced the rest is). If they need to make DLCs that strong to convince ppl to buy them, then they should consider just moving on to the next game. An alternative would be releasing a pack with several characters, backgrounds and balance changes. Additionally, it would be nice if they retouched some of the underused characters. Quite a few are missing moves.

[PureYeti]

They also said GGPO didn't work when they tried implementing it into the XIII console release. And unfortunately other console-released fighters who have used GGPO or some kind of rollback netcode have had mixed results (3SOE & SFxT). I can't tell what they used for XIII, but given more strength in the basic build of it, I'd hope it could be sufficient for a lot more people.

They need to take notes from skullgirls because they show how it is really done

[desmond_kof]

They also said GGPO didn't work when they tried implementing it into the XIII console release. And unfortunately other console-released fighters who have used GGPO or some kind of rollback netcode have had mixed results (3SOE & SFxT). I can't tell what they used for XIII, but given more strength in the basic build of it, I'd hope it could be sufficient for a lot more people.

They need to take notes from skullgirls because they show how it is really done

KOFXIII probably uses more memory (RAM and CPU) than Skullgirls which is why it works better with GGPO. Sad thing is that KOF needs rollback, playing with delay is uncomfortable...

[sibarraz]

SG doesn't seem as a game that require that much use of ram, unlike games like 33 or XIII which expend lots of it

People is really stupid, is like when they thought that since psn 95 has good netcode XIII will had it for default

[Mr Bakaboy]

They also said GGPO didn't work when they tried implementing it into the XIII console release. And unfortunately other console-released fighters who have used GGPO or some kind of rollback netcode have had mixed results (3SOE & SFxT). I can't tell what they used for XIII, but given more strength in the basic build of it, I'd hope it could be sufficient for a lot more people.

They need to take notes from skullgirls because they show how it is really done

Doesn't Skullgirls use the Arc System Works style in limiting the amount of frames to get smoother results? Not sure on that but it was the saving grace on games like Blaz Blue. Less frames means easier netcode to implement. KOF XIII backed themselves into a corner netcode wise cause they made a game that taxes the system it's on (see load times between matches) and runs a fighting game system that is super sensitive to lag. I don't know what netcode out there would be acceptable on it. My hope is maybe the next gen systems would have an easier time on it and it has enough popularity to get a re-release.

[venusandeve]

a 2D fighting game.... taxing.... omfg ='D

[Saitsuofleaves]

a 2D fighting game.... taxing.... omfg ='D

Uh, actually, 2D fighters tend to be PLENTY more taxing than 3D fighters when it comes to stress on a system.

[venusandeve]

Dude, have you seen the games you can run on an xbox 360??? Like, I understand our chauvinism but a fighting game is not a benchmark for system stress. Mike Z went ballistic when the tekken dude started going on about how much tougher it was to do the netcode for tekken. In good truth, the only thing getting passed back and forth are time-stamped events. It´s just that too many people have shitty/shared internet, use wireless etc etc. Yes, SNK was naive when they did the netcode for kof 13, but doing a proper netcode is not in the realm of the gods. it´s just something recent in the FGC, opposed to first person shooters, where it´s been around for 30 years.

[Saitsuofleaves]

I wasn't saying proper netcodes were the realm of the gods, and short of Skullgirls and VF5, no other netcode is even close to acceptable right now and I don't think they ever will be honestly until the next gen systems come out as not a single person is giving a reason as to why producers even have to step it up.

And I was comparing 2D Fighters to 3D Fighters only, to which when it comes to system stress (which isn't a big deal on this gen's systems, it was only a problem last gen and before), 2D does tend to cause more.  As to if 2D Fighters come close to anything else game wise on the market with stress, I honestly don't know the answer to that, but it's probably not that close.

And don't ever call me chauvinistic...EVER.

[Proto Cloud]

SGs ain't all that perfect to begin with anyway. That's why every game needs to build its own personalized in-house netcode that works for them. It worked for VF and it can work for everyone else. Like I said before, they need to drop GSS. They're crap. Let them hire an American company for a change or something.

[Kane317]

And don't ever call me chauvinistic...EVER.

I dunno if you're nothing sarcastic or not, but I'm sure venusandeve  wasn't directing at you personally.

[nightmoves]

Personally, although I love XIII, I don't think they should release an updated version. I'd rather see them utilize their resources to create a new KoF with what we want(characters, stages, intros, more moves, etc.).

KoF XIV should do what 98UM and 2002UM did. Add ALL the characters and bosses from the last saga, use one of the gameplay engines used(in this case it would be XIII's, I don't see 2003's/XI's or XII's returning.), add Rugal, Goenitz, and the New Face Team, and viola! You got yourself one hell of a dream match!

[Mr Bakaboy]

a 2D fighting game.... taxing.... omfg ='D

Then show me a fighting game that in the past had load times between matches and it didn't stress the system? Most fighting games I've seen don't have the load times there unless they had to condense the memory packets cause it was too much for the system to handle all at once. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not talking about the system can barely run it when it's going. I'm talking about memory management. If you have loading times more then likely to are having to compile and condense a lot of memory on the fly. The more info the computer has to work with the more taxed out the computer is to do lightning quick connection adjustments. Kinda works the same with using up all your ram on your computer. Suddenly it's not so fast anymore.

Other games do the same thing. They find areas to have load times cause yes, taking in the entire RPG, or FPS, or Action game might be a bit much so you figure out where you can load the game where people don't notice it as much. Thing is Fighting Games are more centralized then most. 2 characters, stage that doesn't really move, music, and moves. If you have to load between rounds then there is something big going on memory wise.

[venusandeve]

@Saitsuo: Sorry if I offended you. Most FG players are a bit one track minded, they only like FGs and every other FG except their favourite sux. Was talking in general, didn't mean to take a stab at you.

@Baka-kun:on my xbox, I don't have any load times between rounds, screen blacks out for a moment then comes back again. Then again, I installed KoF to the hard drive. On memory management and net code... If you can run first person shooters with several players on one level without the memory management affecting the performance, then sure as sh1t you can have 2 measly players (one to one connection) running lagless. Yes, there's tons to load, but close to nothing to process, the puter is left mostly free to send stuff. I stick to my opinion that bad netcode is more likely due to the fact that netplay is quite new in FGs. And if one is realistic, our expectations may be too high. A fighting game is a hectic thing, and no matter how good the code is, you are still at the mercy of your and your opponents ISPs. Just a couple of milliseconds can make or break a match.