Author Topic: KOF XIII 10th General Thread: America on Top (@EVO2013), Everyone Back to Work!  (Read 108075 times)

desmond_kof

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Yea it kind of depends on what they mean by easy. In a lot of ways, KOF13 is harder than any other kof, because you HAVE to learn the hard stuff (hd combos, optimal combos in general) to compete.

Yeah, that's one of my main personal gripes for XIII compared to 98/02, I feel it's very execution intensive with a lack of good neutral game. You can put up a good fight in the neutral department and zone well for a while but if you slip up and let someone get in and hit you with ONE normal that's a combo starter then it's over...if that person doesn't drop their combo of course.

And for yourself, if you don't land your hd combos and optimal combos, your drastically decreasing your damage output potential.

Plus, I can't stand EX moves, no characters in any KOF had special moves with so much invulnerability or startup frames, even as their HSDM, lol...I'm exaggerating of course but it seems people just whip em out while they are on the defense so it sorta nerfs the wake-up and corner pressure game a bit, IMO...
"Do not place so much importance on winning. The fight itself has value."

Mr Bakaboy

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snip

I agree with you 100%. I tend to play footsies and always struggle with combos. It has been a uphill battle for me in XIII. That being said I am basing my opinion on which game they compared the new KOF to. The major panick is KOF turning into something like Street Fighter IV or MVC3, but my belief is the core system will never change. The producer of XIII really stressed this when XIII was in production.  Just the bells and whistles they decide to add to the game are what's up on the chopping block.

Using '98 as the comparsion tells me the combo system is REALLY getting dumbed down and we're going back to players who rely on combos will probably hate this game. It suits me just fine, but I'm extremely suprised Playmore would allow the fanbase they just got to drop off and hope the fanbase they might have lost due to the heavy combo system of XIII to come back. Personally I feel there should be a compromise.
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Great_Dark_Hero

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I was playing KOFXIII as if it were 98 for the first few months I had gotten a hold of it. I did not start putting emphasis on HD combos and the other new elements until after WGC of that year (though, I did use a lot of EX moves as well). 
How the neutral game is played on KOFXIII is quite a bit different when compared to the likes of KOF98 -
KOF98 had a bit of a... simplified approach but it still had a lot of depth as KOFXIII does - the same can easily be said for 02UM when comes to competitive game play.
Speaking of KOFXIII's neutral game, JuiceboxKing conducted tutorials on the neutral game a few days ago.

Amedø310

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Isn't the neutral game the core element of kof? It does not make sense to make it different between games if nearly 11 games followed a certain style of gameplay.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2013, 03:21:08 AM by AmedoS310 »

Reiki.Kito

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I think the big trade-off between older KoFs and KOFXIII was the movelist and the drive cancel system. Older KoFs had a lot more moves and variations for their characters, but you couldn't cancel like you can in XIII. With more moves with the same focus on the drive system, some moves would be redundant.

I'd figure if they make it like 98', there will be a much more rich movelist for the characters to use.

However, I've grown fond of how KOFXIII plays. Kind of disappointed they're going to back-peddle gameplay.

pablofsi

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Well there's no other KOF game up to now where characters have more moves than 2002...

Ky0

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It feels the good news...  Great!

KoF 4 EVA

yamazaky96

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Yea it kind of depends on what they mean by easy. In a lot of ways, KOF13 is harder than any other kof, because you HAVE to learn the hard stuff (hd combos, optimal combos in general) to compete. It has this pseudo anime game feeling to it that it never really had before because of that. So even though you can look at 2k2um or original 02, where the maxmode combos are way more difficult to execute and say that they're harder, you can also play those games based on fundamentals and be much more successful than you would in kof13. There's characters that don't even really use max mode, well all know that. In kof13 as time went on, very few characters without strong or practical hd usage were relevant because of the nature of the game.

So yea, 2k2um max mode is hard, but you can play k' and just run around playing normally and only do short short trigger~spike, overhead~minute spike, and basic launch combos in the corner and win just fine. You can zone and poke with 2k2um King, do basic prox ub/attack option selects and not even do combos and be successful. So is it really harder overall? I'd say it's based more upon the neutral game than landing mixups and combo starters, whether that's easier or harder is not really explaining the entire situation. If I was to teach someone with crappy execution but good decision making and intelligence in fighting games a kof, kof13 would be the most frustrating one for them to learn, because you can't play without the combo grind. They forced it on everyone in a way they never did before. Yet a small child could play 98 ralf, oyashiro, chris, daimon, etc. on a basic level. And then depending on your point of view you could turn right around and say that kof98 is a harder game.

And don't forget, there's neanderthals out there with great execution too, and mvc3 increased their numbers by quite a lot. I've seen them! Those kinds of players would be comparatively stronger in kof13 just because they would instantly be able to convert stuff into damage, since hd combos really are not hard at all for the most part IF you have good execution. They are just made that way. Yet in an older kof (which are way harder right?), they would not even really have an outlet because the games are based almost completely on the neutral game and not on confirming into big combos. So it depends on what you mean by easier and harder.

Having parts of the game being easier (like combos), just brings out other parts of the game (neutral), which in turn changes the nature of the game. When it comes down to it, making the game more basic in terms of combos would both increase the importance of the neutral game, spacing, poking, etc., and decrease the importance of grinding combos off short short~activate or trying to land that one cross up. Harder or easier? Does it matter? The game would be both easier for new players to pick up, especially from sf4 (which is where most of the intelligent ones are anyway), and favor more experienced, intelligent players at the same time. Sounds like a win/win to me.

what about the invincibility of most of the EX moves and the top priority combo starters for many characters
generally on classic KOF's you will never throw a random move because every single move is punishable....
whenever you are trapped in a corner you will have to find a smart way to get out while in KOFXIII you can just do an invincible attack with no recovery frames and hope for the best...!
what about the characters them self?
many of them are boring and so simple and combo dependent...
how every single match on the EVO top 8 ended?
a player drops an HD combo and the other player takes advantage of it and land his HD combo
KOFXIII is unfair


I play kofxiii and tried to push our community to play it but they just hate everything about it
forgot to mention that I will always feel bored to death after 20 or so matches on KOFXIII
I just hope next  KOF will not be more abusable than XIII
« Last Edit: August 19, 2013, 07:38:04 AM by yamazaky96 »

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Mr Bakaboy

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^ Not to knock the classics (especially since I prefer the UM series to XIII when it comes down to it), but the classics had plenty of crazy non/almost unpunishable moves that players just spam at nauseum. One of the things that was praised about the new generation KOF when it first started (talking KOF XII and the beginning of XIII) was the special moves themselves seemed more balanced. Rarely do you see someone spamming a move with no thought behind it till it works. Compare Athena in this game to Athena to 2k2. 2k2 you can get away with bloody murder in her fireball game. How about Kensou in this game compared to Kensou in XI? I can rape all day in XI compared to this. The list goes on.

The downfall of XIII is the combo system makes touch of death almost or completely possible and considering KOF has NEVER been about that has alienated many of the older fans. I am just playing the game with a online system that I can stand, so I hate to say it's impossible to enjoy this game without knowing a good set of HD combos, but I can understand your frustration. Especially since the classics seemed to be pushed to the side when IMO the UM series should be played more and looked at for a sequel. KOf XI UM would be nice to see.
Say it with me now: "Variable input lag BAAAAAAD!!!"

pablofsi

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So how were games like the whole NESTS saga including 2002 not infested with unfair and highly damaging stuff you could do that touched the opponent and it was practically a guaranteed 70% gone from their health bar? '98 runs away from that cuz it's too old (but there still was 50% stuff with the touch of one single hit many characters could do). XIII is the same, as are many fighting games which need cash and try to appeal to people with flashy combos, but a little more controlled and makes your life a little bit hard in order to pull off something pretty damaging.

I'd say XIII provides diversity in combo possibilities and high damage bnbs but harder to do at times. Doesn't take away the fact that it can be a combo fest, but you make it sound as if it was the first time it was like that and we should be discouraged from playing it.

PureYeti

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Two videos are up on steam and the emails have been sent out

http://store.steampowered.com/video/222940/2029161

a11111357

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desmond_kof

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From the responses of the netcode that I'm reading, SNKP is using the SAME input delay netcode from KOFXIII console on to PC. LOL.
"Do not place so much importance on winning. The fight itself has value."

Xxenace

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From the responses of the netcode that I'm reading, SNKP is using the SAME input delay netcode from KOFXIII console on to PC. LOL.
does this mean i wasted my money again?

a11111357

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From the responses of the netcode that I'm reading, SNKP is using the SAME input delay netcode from KOFXIII console on to PC. LOL.
It's time to send SNK a acomplaint email.
 info@snkplaymoreusa.com