The King of Fighters 2002/Neowave/UM/Tougeki General Discussion Thread

[Dark Geese]

Okay change of pace, Ciudad Juarez, Mexico 2002 UM Tougeki Tier List for the time being (Post JuareZ WarField 2010) ranging from Top Tier to  B Class:

**Disclaimer- This is Ciudad Juarez, Mexico, so with all due respect keep in mind different people are used, different culture, they do allow console characters and they are no problem whatsoever to them etc, so regardless of your personal feelings on the matter please respect that they do things differently, this is not meant to start any drama, just posting FYI.**

S Class:

Geese (regular), K',  Kasumi, King, Nameless, Jhun

A + Class:
EX Takuma/Takuma, Angel, Heidern, Yuri, Kula, Benimaru, EX Robert

A Class:
Robert, Iori, Bao, Hinako,  Leona, Mature, Clark, Billy, Kim, Choi, Chris, O. Chris, O. Yashiro

B Class:
Kyo-2, Kusanagi, Whip,  Yamazaki, Terry, Andy, May Lee, Seth, Vice, Ryo, Athena

Some notes for the time being:
-Regardless of the fact that Angel does not have her infinite, in the right hands in Juarez she is still high tier. Her mixups are still very deadly, she has more mixups than most do in the game and she still does good damage. Watch Zeus's Angel and you will see what I am talking about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBgFtqECZk0

-Heidern is very very nasty in the right hands, even nastier in the console version! He has an answer for almost everything with his lockdown, watch Zeus's Heidern to get an idea of this as well.
-Regular Takuma is a monster in the right hands, his counter special allows cancel in to super and is excellent to stop most abusable strings. It is hard to play an expert regular Takuma effectively because combine that with his unblockable setups and when he activates you have the choice between unblockable setups and comboing into super or counter special then cancel into grab super, so Regular Takuma is just as deadly in the right hands as EX Takuma, EX Takuma is just easier to use.
-Regular Robert has good Free cancels off his command grab in BC Mode that make him deadlier than he was in regular 2002, so combine Mexican style Robert play with his extra free cancel command grab into super and this makes him very strong.
-EX Robert is better than Robert simply because he guardcrushes a lot faster than regular Robert. He has everything regular has but guardcrushes about 5x faster than regular Robert with his b flying kicks.

This is enough for now.

[desmond_kof]

What makes Jhun S class in Juarez?

[Dark Geese]

Same stuff that makes him S Class here, retains infinite, excellent crossups, excellent corner lockdown, easy combos off instant guardcrush, excellent array of Mixups ala Angel

[desmond_kof]

Main reason why I ask is because I don't really see a lot of Jhun's either on Japan videos and I haven't seen many in the Mexico videos you post, so if you can link me some, it would be great. Another reason is because I've been learning him and he seems kinda trickier to use than some of the characters he shares his class with...

[Dark Geese]

Jhun is very tricky, I almost was able to get video of good Jhuns at JuareZ WarField because there were two tvs with 2k2UM, the main TV had the ft10 with Ivan vs. Zeus and Alexis etc, and the other tv had casuals with Luis Cha (Who mains Jhun) playing as well.

He is used in Japan fairly well there is an SBO Qualifier I believe on Emil's video that shows a very good Jhun I believe it's Oogosho or someone playing that uses a good Jhun, he is very difficult to master like Angel so he has a high learning curve.

In Juarez Jhun isn't used as much per se, but he is used in other parts of Mexico, each city has it's own identity in regards to what characters are used as much per se..

Also in addition to this guys yes Vanessa is low tier, she really ONLY has difficult BC comboes she can do as well as what I say the "Lalo Guardbreak cancel" which you will see me doing in the next batch of vids I play with MightyMar.. she even has this same trick in KOFXI which I believe makes her as Leader actually deadlier..enough to be B Class with Leader.

[Cibernetico]

In Mexico, where do Ralf, Seth and Ryo sit currently?

And speaking of which, does anyone know what +'s and -'s each one has from their transition to UM? Or did they retain everything with very little changes?

[PureYeti]

Credit to Rickyo95 from CX for finding the frame data of KOF 2002 UM

http://comesonobravo.jugem.jp/?day=20100101

Go all the way down on the last section or until you see this: 02UM：キャラ別発生フレーム＆硬直差メニュー

He only translated Team Japan, AOF, FF, Yagami, and Nameless on his blog

http://friokugendojo.wordpress.com/

[krazykone123]

Just added these to the 02UM wiki

Wakeup Speed

(-13F) - Ralf, Yuri

(-11F) - Athena

(-9F) - Whip

(-7F) - Yamazaki, Kula

(-6F) - Joe, Robert, Angel, Kasumi

(-5F) - Kim, B. Mary, Hinako, Mature, Ryo, Foxy, Mai

(-3F) - K', Takuma

(-2F) - Yashiro, Lin

(-1F) - Daimon, Terry, Kensou, Clark, May Lee, Vanessa

(0F) - Kyo, Chang, Choi, Vice, Shingo, King, KUSANAGI, Kyo-1, Kyo-2, Nameless

(+2F) - Leona, Iori

(+3F) - Chris, Heidern, Chin

(+4F) - Andy, Bao, Xiangfei

(+5F) - Billy, Shermie

(+6F) - Benimaru, Ramon, Jhun

(+10F) - Maxima


Crouching Height

Lowest - Chin, Choi, Bao

Low -  Xiangfei, Joe, Benimaru, Iori, Mature, Vice (during weak attacks), Leona, Athena, Kensou, Mai, Yuri, Yashiro, Chris, Yamazaki, Billy, Kim, Kula, Foxy, Jhun

Middle - K’, Whip, Terry, Andy, Kyo, KUSANAGI, Vice, Ralf, Clark, Vanessa,Seth, Ramon, Ryo, Robert, Takuma, May Lee, Shermie, B. Mary, (K9999), Angel, Nameless, Lin, Shingo, Heidern, King, Kasumi, Kyo-1, Kyo-2

High - Maxima, Daimon, Hinako

Highest - Chang

[Remxi]

Thanks, very useful.

EDIT: Hmm I think Xiangfei should be in the Low class, not Lowest. e.g. Athena j.A and Leona vert j.D can hit her but not Choi, Chin or Bao.

[krazykone123]

Thanks, very useful.

EDIT: Hmm I think Xiangfei should be in the Low class, not Lowest. e.g. Athena j.A and Leona vert j.D can hit her but not Choi, Chin or Bao.

Fixed, I'll start adding frame data to the rest of the 02UM pages, I did a ghetto writeup for the Vice wiki but it's still in progress

[PureYeti]

So which sign is slower and faster?

[Emil_kof]

So which sign is slower and faster?

- is faster. Ralf has the fastest wakeup speed, Maxima has the slowest.

[Dark Geese]

Seth is B Class in Mexico, Ralf is Low Mid, Ralf has very little to offer..

[Cibernetico]

Got a question for you guys. If you had a choice between OG2k2 and NeoWave, which would you guys mainly play?

[krazykone123]

Got a question for you guys. If you had a choice between OG2k2 and NeoWave, which would you guys mainly play?

OG2k2 because it's extremely easy to find competition for it