Shen Woo (Arcade Version)

[darkTown2]

didn't it always increase his defense?

[mightfo]

i thought i figured out some nice tech when i thought of doing crouching lp standing lp whiff into command throw or cancelling his CD into command grab to make a badass karathrow but the way proximity blocking works in this game with throws seems to make those things useless : (

[omegaryuji]

Yeah, I don't think karathrowing really works in KOF because of the throw invincibility window after blocking (plus you're giving your opponent a free ticket to alternate guard).

[MAASKYO]

didn't it always increase his defense?

because  nilcam  didn't mention it in the first page.

[Kane317]

1-   Could by canceled by roll (  )
2- Bakuten increase his defense
kyo's neo max in shen (normal) 423
in Bakuten  352.

I confirmed number 2, I did not know that.  I wonder if that was the case in the arcades.  Someone test out 1.

[desmond_kof]

1-  Could by canceled by roll (   )
2- Bakuten increase his defense
kyo's neo max in shen (normal) 423
in Bakuten  352.

I confirmed number 2, I did not know that.  I wonder if that was the case in the arcades.  Someone test out 1.

Number one works. I'll add it to the wiki.

EDIT: regarding Bakuten, I think his defense gets increased by 20 percent...

[Kane317]

Regarding the charge punch cancel, I tested if you hold back+AB it just cancels immediately instead of rolling.  In fact, as noted in the change notes, if you press the D to cancel the charge punch too early--it won't cancel.  However, the back+AB doesn't seem to have that limitation.  I'll need to experiment more.  UPDATE: It's the same, turns out you can cancel as fast as you want charging by yourself but when you put it in a combo the D doesn't buffer long enough (s.C, f.B, qcf+C (hold)~D) and the same thing with the back AB.

His cancel is so fast now, at least in the corner I got: s.C, f.B, charge punch~feint, s.A to connect.

[Reiki.Kito]

So basically you can only roll forwards?

[Kane317]

So basically you can only roll forwards?

Correct.

[ShinSyn]

I'm really enjoying Shen in this game, he's a good character in my book even with his limitations which aren't that limited.  The only thing I don't like is that his Punch charged at Max, doesn't crush guard anymore, it just doesn't make sense and kinda kills the whole point of charging it all the way.

Was there a specific reason behind that nerf because it was punishable if someone timed a roll correctly right?

[darkTown2]

I'm really enjoying Shen in this game, he's a good character in my book even with his limitations which aren't that limited.  The only thing I don't like is that his Punch charged at Max, doesn't crush guard anymore, it just doesn't make sense and kinda kills the whole point of charging it all the way.

Was there a specific reason behind that nerf because it was punishable if someone timed a roll correctly right?

yeah after the change there really isn't any point in charging it since by the time you get their guard low enough to
crushing they're probably going to no to escape.

but on the flip side don't you think it's a little unfair that if you mess up and block it on accident that you eat a super. 

[Kane317]

The only thing I don't like is that his Punch charged at Max, doesn't crush guard anymore, it just doesn't make sense and kinda kills the whole point of charging it all the way.

Was there a specific reason behind that nerf because it was punishable if someone timed a roll correctly right?

As a Shen user myself, the nerf does seem excessive.  At high level game play nobody gets hit by that charge punch, and yes, it is very punishable.  I think they should make it so it takes off 75 guard gauge because at the rate the guard gauge replenishes, you'd have to to take him down to 40% then charge the punch if you want to get that guard crush.

BTW, welcome to DC ShinSyn, don't forget to introduce yourself properly over at the meet and greet section.

[ShinSyn]

yeah after the change there really isn't any point in charging it since by the time you get their guard low enough to
crushing they're probably going to no to escape.

but on the flip side don't you think it's a little unfair that if you mess up and block it on accident that you eat a super.  

Not really, if the opponent can't roll against such an obvious move they should be punished for it, I mean it's not like you don't see it coming.  The reward of a full charged move should be (in theory) a guard break if it makes contact, especially if you have to stand there for a fair amount of time to charge it.

The fact that he had a guard crush move make it reasonable that his mix up was lackluster (outside of HD mode), at least that's the way I see it.  Shen is still a viable character even without it, it was just something that bugged me.

As a Shen user myself, the nerf does seem excessive.  At high level game play nobody gets hit by that charge punch, and yes, it is very punishable.  I think they should make it so it takes off 75 guard gauge because at the rate the guard gauge replenishes, you'd have to to take him down to 40% then charge the punch if you want to get that guard crush.

BTW, welcome to DC ShinSyn, don't forget to introduce yourself properly over at the meet and greet section.

I can agree with the bold in this post after looking at it from his perspective.  If the punch took away 75% of the guard gauge, then I can see it still being a viable tool to use in high level play.

And thanks for the welcome.  I was a lurker here and decided to post up since XIII is released on consoles.  And I will stop in here to introduce myself.

[omegaryuji]

I'd guess that toning down the guard crush to just 50% is to prevent it from being a punish to recovery rolling his sweep in the corner.  At least, I'm pretty sure there was a video of corner cr.D, qcf+(C), CABC, (MC) Neomax basically killing if you recovery roll the sweep and get guard crushed.  I don't think anyone else had a setup where a recovery roll would HAVE to be followed by a reversal or else give a free combo, and if the opponent didn't recovery roll, Shen could still cancel the punch and get some oki pressure on.

[darkTown2]

I'd guess that toning down the guard crush to just 50% is to prevent it from being a punish to recovery rolling his sweep in the corner.  At least, I'm pretty sure there was a video of corner cr.D, qcf+(C), CABC, (MC) Neomax basically killing if you recovery roll the sweep and get guard crushed.  I don't think anyone else had a setup where a recovery roll would HAVE to be followed by a reversal or else give a free combo, and if the opponent didn't recovery roll, Shen could still cancel the punch and get some oki pressure on.

there was also that time where fixel took out bbz's  raiden (full health) with corner it on wake-up only with that type of mixup.

also @ shinsyn compared to shen's charge time in kof 2003 the punch is a lot faster and while you can easily roll out of it, and saying that after charging the move for that long it should guard break. isn't the case for a lot of characters in other fighting games with similar moves. plenty have moves that could be charged longer and the opponent has the to do something similar to a roll and block at the same time.

just so you don't get me wrong i'm not a fan of the nerf.