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how safe is dp+C~A+B and qcf+C~Dash on block?

From gaming experience:

The DP Brake isn't safe, they'll recover while you're still recovering, (Thus giving them advantage) but it does have some pushback, and people won't always expect it, so you CAN throw it out every once in a while.

His C Kou'ken -> Dash is actually safe, though the wind-up time for the projectile throw itself is pretty open to being jumped over / punished. I believe you actually Have advantage even after the dash, but the dash range is severly shortened, so instead of really getting in on them, you get to something like right around far C range.

To test this stuff on your own, in training mode, change the Dummy to "1 Guard-Jump" settings. Do an attack, and then hold up. If they jump before you, you're at a disadvantage. After you, you're at advantage. Pause the game once the jumps happen, and judge how much advantage you have by judging the jump heights.

Favorite random Meter-burning stupidity: After a Kohou-break, you can loop tiger-knee'd EX HSK. Followup with whatever, excellent corner carry.

He can jump-cancel standing weak kick into weak HSK for a combo, and this can be drive cancelled into his EX HSK for the crazy carry again.

Hop back weak HSK is also a great punish for predicted DPs and the like.

New command normal easily can be combo'd into off lights, and is one of few things that leaves an enemy in enough hitstun to land a strong Ko'ou -> Dash. It also is one of few things that combos after the full 3 hits, rather than just cancelling after 2 like Kohou-break. After the dash-in, you can continue to follow up for reset of a weak Kohou in corner.

Already really liking this guy. He has tricks for all levels of opponents, nice depth, a fresh take on things, and he's kinda like Kushnood! Just great all around!

Personally, I also like to remember the fact that he can combo into EX Hien Shippu Kyaku off light attacks. Sure it takes meter, but at least it achieved getting practice for the followup timing and overall comfortability with landing things afterwards.

I feel the Command normal -> Hien almost feels more like a Link, rather than a combo, due to the late connection after the f+B.

I also find it nice that he can land Zanretsuken after the s.C, f+B combo. A suprising amount of vaccum to the move. Really like that close-to body crumple, to start the mixup game once again. Doesn't do bad damage of it's own either, and if you really want to, you can always DC out of it; the scaling from the hits will hurt, but it's a great way to land solid, possibly character-killing damage, that has a bit less "risk" to it.

What makes me sad, overall though, is that I rarely see Takuma's attempt the Hien-combos online, it's always just Ko'ouken spam I haven't played him too much myself (Though I'm growing to like pairing him up with Chin/Robert), but I often find myself ending up at the wrong side of a cross-up hop D than I predicted, and that generally throws off my charging idea just enough, lol. But if I land an opponent in a cornered clean hit, I'm going for the D Hien combo, no matter what. A Lot easier to combo out his d+C in this game, that with previous Takuma versions, as well...

In the end, he DOES have a lot of options for combo enders, even before you master this thread's premiere combo. It's a good thing to note, as Desmond and Diavle mention. I'd encourage potential Takuma players to keep the combo in their bag of tricks, but PLEASE learn that he's more than just that one combo, or a fireball cannon. He's a very well-rounded character.

EX SAB does a bit more damage I believe, has longer range, and can be Super Cancelled by itself, Max Cancelled in HD mode.

DM UAB Has solid range, and does more damage again, of course. EX Version buffs those properties.

[//Not a real Answer//]

hei what's the best team to put in chin ?? and a hohoho kof mass to all

With two other characters you're good with?  There's no correct answer to your question.

While this is very true, I have to add, you want to make sure you don't pair him with characters that'll diminish how YOU play him, though you get a lot of leeway with order select and personal playstyle.

For example, I like using Drive Cancel combos with Chin, and occassionally his neomax for fun. I also REALLY like to a drive cancel with Hwa though. So ususally, if I have them both on a team, I have them at the ends, while I keep someone like Vice or Robert in the middle; someone who can build some meter between my 2 meter hogs.

But if I wanna use Chin as my secret weapon of confusion and damage, I'll set him in the back, behind a grappler and maybe Leona. I love using Leona as a final killer, buf it I placed her second on a team with Chin, I'll calm my use of her cancels and such, and mostly work with Instant overheads into V-Slasher, and save the drives for him.

//Not a real Answer// But in the END, we all know Chin is best with King (bartender) and Hwa Jai (Also drinks to buff himself), as team Intoxication!//Fake Answer END//

But really, just play who you like, and learn to adjust so that the characters get to be used in the ways you want them to be. It's up to YOU to make your team work!

I don't really PLAY Sie, but my brother does, so I fight him a lot. So I'll hazard some guesses, especially since I DO play Mai and Leona, and I know what I'd be worries to run into.

Mai - good zoning with normal,the threat of NeoMAX,very nice air play :-(

You know, you might be able to Bait Mai's Neomax on twitchy players by throwing out a noraml to call out the neomax idea, and then quickly command-backflipping. She'd pass right through you, and you could cancel the flipp into special upon landing. You can beat her at projectile games with Chokyudan, also, and this could bait her into trying to land EX Kachousen in projectile wars. As Kensou, I'd say in on Mai. She has no really fantastic Anti-airs normally, and you jump C and B can both be used well to maintain aerial pressure on knockdowns. I like to use run-unders with her, to switch sides on jumpers and suprise them, but Kensou's Ryusogeki should help make that hard for her to do.

And you have a command grab. Perfect way to punish a desperate Mai who tries to land Musasabi, Hissatsu, Ukibane, or poorly-timed projectiles. She might be a better zone'r, but you're much stronger up close.

Leona - same as Mai with V-Slasher, mix with hop+CD>d.B again and again......

Without meter, Leona's reversal options are silenced by deep jump-ins, and if she's trying to block, you're keeping up solid pressure. Always cover a knockdown with a fireball, of course, and run behind it with caution, to try and bait the V-slasher. She can't outfireball you at all, and you can stop and block before a slasher hits you, if you didn't commit to an action.

Hop CD is kinda slow. You could possibly stand D or hop B her out of it. And again, that cool backflip with invincibility and the ability to cancel into specials gives you some nice anti-pressure control. And you have a great DP that even moves you foward, and splits his legs both ways, possibly even trading with crossup attempts.

A solid Kensou gives my Leona some trouble. He's not as easy to control as I'd like, and he makes much of her pressure more unsafe than usual.

Iori - Crossp b.B, jump B/D, and the normal Iori stuffs

thanks kupô ^0^

Your DP, once again, is one of the best at possibly eating / catching his crossup. But preferably, I'd want to keep him out, and chip away at him. It's not like he has any far-ranged options as Claw, and as flame, his up-close specials become less-effective, maybe making the close-up fight a bit more fair.

Iori's love their overzelous hop pressure, so maybe even full jumping back and letting out a Ryusogeki -> Ryugakusai combo should catch him every once in a while.

1. What is the difference between EX Rekkas and regular Rekkas. Do they have frame advantage if i stop in the middle of the chain. HOw punishable is this move (EX and normal) on block or is this move ONLY meant for combo finishers.

2. With the speed upgrade on his fireball. Can he do the fireball/frame traps he could do in 98/2k2?

3. Looks like he lost his 98/2k2/XI pokes, so what normals are good now. standing and air to air

4. Can anyone please explain what his new qcf+K move is and its uses?

5. Any properties or use for his command somersault?

I noticed noone answered these. Let me give my best reply here, too:

1. Dunno about EX rekka safety. Rekka's seem decently safe in the fact that the first 1 or 2 push the enemey back a bit, so you're mostly likely not gonna be grabbed / DP'd out of them. the run and kickoff also is fairly safe, but really great punishes could get you.

2. Dunno if it's be 2k2 like or anything, but he can apply solid pressure with D's into fireballs. As he can also cancel normals into backflip, this helps vary when and what he uses to counter with, allowing the opponent to find more ways to jump into his traps.

3. Stand and ground Bs are good ground control. He has an easy dash-in standing move that hits low with it, and he can chain into his C, in order to link into more damage. Sweep and stand D are also pretty good. I find his hop / Jump B to be solid Air-to-Air in similiar ways to Iori's or Ralf's. Jump D hits people who are above you in-air pretty well, and Jump CD is solid if you get into the air before them. Also not bad at setting up jump /hop pressure.

4. I mostly think of the dash-and-kick as a nice way to push people away, so you can start zoning again. It's a great way to push them back after counter hits, and after Ryusogeki hits. Can hit people who try to back-hop too often, as well. Mix it with other things to do after tossing a fireball on an opponent, and along with dash in Bs, Ds, and hops, they'll have a lot to consider over what you might be doing.

5. Start up on Flip is invincible (think it last the whole first flip), and it's cancellable during this time, through the stated first flip. The 2nd flip isn't cancellable, and just helps you escape. You can use it to flip people GCCD's, and punish afterwards, just to make them miss jump-ins, to escape throws, cancel normals, etc.

Duo's an interesting case for me, he's kinda like a Submain or something for me... I have fun playing him like Dhalsim in SFIV, setting up fireballs and running crossover teleports on wakeup, along with the corpse-hopping CD crossup and general annoyance with his command-specials. I'm suprised they kept the CD crossup in, in a way; it's such a solid trick, and I DO think it fits his style of gameplay very well, but it looks so glitchy!

I find myself using Stocks much more with him than drive cancels, but he seems best when using both, so I feel kinda bad for him, ha hah.

Anyone out there use Duo as their anchor, with all his solid console changes? He seems like he has the potential, but I rarely ever SEE that happen.

I felt pretty spot-on with him when I got a OCV VS a solid player with him online today, but otherwise, He's just my Alt "battery" slot between he, Mai, and Hwa....

That's a pretty good tactic Ryujin, somehow I didn't even think about it after all this time, haha. It also doesn't even scale at all, so it does comparable damage to complicated HD combos. Thanks for the discovery! Should be added to her list of potential combos on the Wiki.

Hmmm, I haven't tried it myself, but Maybe she can also Instant Over Head with Neutral Jump D into EX DM into Neomax? Hmmmm...

Leona's so great in this game. Even when she's not on my team, I have other characters colored to look like her, so I don't miss her TOO much... XD

[Post has been updated 2 times. Make sure to Take note of them!]

Post has been updated 2 times. Make sure to Take note of them!
Impressions from the Combo Video shown by Atlus:

The King of Fighters XIII: Mr. KARATE Console Combo Showcase

He's quite the different character than normal Takuma, that's for sure. Especially with how fireball-spam online players make regular Takuma. I love how much Marco he has. We can tell from the combo vid that he appears to have 2 versions of air Hien Shippukyaku, one that aims downwards, the other that moves straight. The EX version appears to be 2 hits. This might make HienSK a good followup to jump-ins, much like how Hwa Jai or Yuri's hopping A into Divekick work now.

The Invisible Ko'ou ken was shown at a specific distance. Maybe he doesn't have a full screen variety, forcing him to fight at a mid-range distance to use his projectiles? The EX Version seemed to have a LONG startup, and seems made for juggles, but not for projectile wars. The specific ability to move in after the HP version seems to suggest that his projectile is more for self-movement pressure, rather than keep-away.

His Counter has no built-in attack afterwards, it seems. This is probably to help him work with his lack of projectile-deadening options VS normal Takuma. If it's like Marco, one strength  is for high attacks, the other is for low ones.

His Zanretsuken is the old AoF "raising" type, rather than new Takuma's "stick and crumple" variation. Looks like it potentially leads to a free followup at midscreen, one that's probably heavily scaled.

He has a new command normal that we didn't see used in any of these combos, apparently a 3 hit multi punch (sounds like Marco again, as he had a f+C multi hit punch too.)

Also... did we see him link Stand D into Stand C to HD start and continue? That's pretty cool. That would give him 2 standing hard normals into Command normal into special for a BnB after jump-ins? Or maybe it functions like a chain combo, of the normals would leave them too far away for too many followups? Hmmm..

I hope his Kohou break is as easy as Andy's is in this game, and not strict like Marcos. This, plus the aerial HienSK, should give him nice, meterless mid-screen options.

Ahhh, and the return of Shorankyaku! Can he drive cancel this like many other grapples gained on home console? Are the EX or Weak kick versions Instant command grabs? Can he combo into it? I'm very much looking forward to seeing what kind of utility he gets out of this.

His Ranbu seems to start up slower than normal Takuma's. So probably not as good a reversal, forcing you to use counters and DP more, perhaps? The EX version seems to do very generous damage though.

His new DP DM is probably his powered reversal of choice. Current Takuma SERIOUSLY lacks in normal AAs, this Karate has plenty. 2 levels of grounded hits will make it pretty easy to cancel too, which will be helpful.

And lastly, his Neomax. It seems to get scaled pretty badly by preceeding hits, but seems to have decent utility. Current Takuma gets a very expensive, but extremly powerful Anti-air with his, This Takuma gets an easy way to tack damage onto his combos from just about anywhere he sets you up into. While it might lack in character animation, the Chi (Shouldn't really be... actual Fire, right? Just energy) Does take on an exaggerated zoom of the sprites animation, and acts out the whole "Upward arm of destruction, Downward strike of fury!" motion he goes through, which is actually more than I expected. It's actually quite cool. Better than the 2 frame "In energy" image I thought was shown in the leaked preview.

While I like the other 2 DLC guys, this is the one who I actually might make a real team for. He's like a fan-letter to the various representations of Kyokugen over the years, all rolled into 1 character. Looking forward to using him!

Anyone else notice anything about him, or have any thoughts on how he'll work?

UPDATE: Dandy J dropped some knowledge on Karate on Neogaf:

some things about mr karate -

- his D not only allows him to link stuff (takumas can be linked from too but its tighter), but its a bit faster. this move is a good anti air actually so thats a nice property.

- jab dp (and ex) are invincible, C is not, and C is the only version that is brakeable. it is easy to brake but still very punishable on block when braked.

- his level 2 being the ranbu is really useful, just for combos and utility in general. its invicnble as youd expect. does 367 damage iirc. empty cancel qcf+P into this is pretty nice, if it hits ground or air the super hits but doesnt cancel on whiff of course.

- never tested the safety on tk air kicks. the D dive one is definitely punishable if not spaced. havent checked to see if you can do them from a backdash, sorry.

- all his ground normals (excluding command normals) are jump cancelable on hit (not block). this leads to starters like close c xx jump ~ tk flying kicks etc. pretty wacky.

- the ex running knee grab thing makes him disappear near the middle of the running animation, granting some invincibility and also tracks/travels full screen. it can even turn around if the opponent switches sides before he reappears (lol). neither version can be drive canceled into air flying kicks from what ive tested.

- the counter is pretty good. i forget if you even have to choose the height, you might not have to. basically you go into the pose, and if something makes contact (even a projectile), youll go into a short uncancelable invincible dash. after the dash there is no recovery, you can block or perform any action. so the opponent would be able to possibly have meaty move out but you can still block or even dp/super through it. i forget what ex counter does it might crumple?

- ex qcf+P is instant guard break. another one i havent tested much but i think there is nothing guaranteed normally, but you should be able to super cancel on block for a guaranteed super.

overall he is a really fun character

This is pretty interesting!

Update 2:

First off, SNKP Uploaded a new Video showing off his moves. This shows the EX version of a few of them, and gets into more detail on his air Hienshippukyaku.

Mr.カラテ技紹介

Next, Dandy J added more notes to his Karate info from the other day:

some more mr karate stuff -

- none of his flying kicks are really safe. if you space them, you can probably avoid being punished, but off tk at any height, off backdash, etc, they are always significant disadvantage, and if you are anywhere in close C range you are getting punished for sure.

- counter doesnt work vs low moves, A and C version seem the same. ex also doesnt work vs lows. for ex he does the marco upward parry motion thing from garou and it crumples.

- his far c is whiff cancelable, while takumas is not, very useful. qcf+p also gains meter on whiff

To those who can download NEST Kyo. How is he?

I left my impressions in his character thread, HERE. Personally, I think XIII Kyo is more free-flowing, and NESTS Kyo has been given so many checks and balances, that he's slightly more restricted. HOWEVER, his own personal gameplay feels rather fresh for this game, and people willing to use his EX's and Unique attack strings will probably find a very powerful, yet well-balanced, character.

Weeell, Looks like there's KOFXIII Gamerpics on the XBL Marketplace.

Anyone get either of them yet, I'll hold off on it for now until I know who is in each one so I don't end up getting one that doesn't actually have who I want to use in it. That would be pretty unfortunate.

Oh, and yeah, about time I made an account here.

Welcome to the site:) Make sure to intro yourself in the "Meet and Greet" secti- wait, you already did! ;-)

Anywho, yeah, I wish there was a preview to the things too. I'd DL a pack or so myself, but now gotta save points for all these crazy XBL 12 days of Christmas deals...  However, keep your eyes on sites like http://gamer-pics.com/ ... they should have the XIII picks pop up eventually!

I have a feeling they're actually tweaking the netcode.  In all honesty, if the patch did just what they said it did, would it not be a lot quicker and a lot easier to just put that in rather then have an unknown date for something that should feasibly be a quick patch?

No, not really. Part of the patch hurdles also involves passing certification for the patch to release to the public. Big companies seem to be able to "rush" a patch through these processes for Sony and Microsoft, but smaller companies can pass the patches (or even DLC) to the companies, and they companies can then decide if they're able to release it soon or not. Not to mention they have to coordinate releases with different company heads in multiple areas of the world.

I'd really like to see the code improve too, lets get those 2's feeling like 3s, 3s like 4s, and 4s better than ever! Hopefully, some true optimization with "in the wild" conditions can enable them to do some amazing things with it.

My Minor contributions after playing NESTS Kyo:

Very Easy HD Bypass: , f+;b Kotosuki You (hcb+K) with B+D. Great way to start those flashy rekka chains, or just get in for the (EX)DM -> Neomax for 700+Damage.

After a blowback hit of a counter hit CD, Kotosuki You B version with do the elbow, but the grab will miss.
Kotosuki D Version will generally hit both.

By the way, his neomax travels full screen. It's not extremly fast, and you can jump over it from that distance if you see it coming, but it's not extremly slow either. You could probably punish a few C Dragonpunches with it pretty easily, though it's no Mai or Vice Neomax.

You can land a Naked Neomak off his 75 Shiki: Kai. You even have enough time to naked activate HD mode and then do the Neomax. Works best is you activate the NM when they're almost level with your head / shoulders, otherwise, you'll move UNDER them.

EX Dokugami chain is pretty nice. Because of all it's hits, it seems to be a better combo ender at times, than his DMs. Something to keep in mind.

Be can chain crouch , stand , stand , crouch together, before doing a Aragami punch / Mu Shiki.

Mu Shiki is pretty lenient. As long as they're not flying backwards, if they get hit by the column, they pretty much bet punched. I juggled the opponent with 75 Shiki Kai in the corner, started Mu Shiki as they were at the height of the juggle, and still got the flame hit + all punches.

His EX DP will throw people OUT of the corner, if you with them with it while they're juggled too high. If you want to use it to finish a juggle, wait till they're closer to you, so it traps them, and nets you more hits/damage.

His B side theme is Goodbye Esake: NEOGEO version. So no Tears

Just a few tips from a Non-Kyo Player Hope you can find some of it useful!

- Best pokes? I've been using c.B, s.C, CD and deicide, and occasional max range Mayhem works sometimes as well but against some characters thats just asking for pain.

Stand B is a good one as well, long range, and can combo into A Mayhem at full range (which is suprising), or even Gorefest, if you're slightly close. Especially the EX version.

Random Note: Remember, she can get EX Deicide off Crouch D sweep. So keep that in mind! Especially since she's one of those people who cannot cancel her far D or C into anything...

-what do u anti-air with?

Neutral Hop/Jump D and B are OK too, since the attack box is so far away from her body. Her close D also does a good job for people trying to jump ofer you, as she has her leg kicked almost straight up at one point. It's not the best AA, but it's actually better than I'd initially expect.

Oh yeah, and there's Overkill. Good if you can predict their movement!

-whats the difference between regular and EX Gorefest? just more damage? can u combo out of the EX?

EX Gorefest has some of the greatest grab range in the game. You won't see it used often because people would generally wanna save her meter for those Deicides, but if you have the reaction for it, you can catch people unaware from much further than they'd expect. You can grab them from the full range of a crouch B, and almost full range of a stand B, for 196 damage. For that kinda range and damage, it's like a nice Mini DM, and sets up a good closer-to-corner knockdown situation for you.

-how do u guys utilize Splash or is it useless outside of punishing bad fireballs? i'm thinking there's a way to use it mid-blockstrings or as a reset mid-combos but idk how to set it up (if it is possible).

EX Splash is stupid-fast. If a person stays on the ground for any amount of time after it starts up, they've now been slammed. It's a little under half screen range, but remember, it can be super-canceled into Overkill, for a very solid, EXDM-like 340 damage. (270 with normal splash into Overkill, which is also nothing to sneeze at! That's 9 more points than her Close D, f+A, C Mayhem->Splash Followup...)

-----

One more note: Dokken (her overhead) Doesn't combo out of weak normals... but it does get the speed of a canceled normal, when used after weak attacks. Thus, you can do a quick 2 hit crouch b, crouch A, then immediately go into Dokken, as an odd form of reset into Mayhem / Gorefest. Of course people could jab out of this, or just block, but it's a nice thing to possibly catch them un-aware, and a psuedo-blockstring, as they don't even have enough time to jump between the crouch A into Dokken. If they DO try to jump, they get hit, and you get a free combo!

SNKP Pits Kyo VS NESTS Kyo, and shows you some of the subtle differences between these characters.

比較動画だだだ

The corresponding blog to this update isn't up yet, from what I've seen.

Basically, in the time it takes you to go from "down" to "up", during that neutral period, you need to chain a hit in. I often do it by mistake with Leona's Standing A while doing moon slashers from crouch B, A. Since I do "Up-back" for basically all moonslashers now, sometimes I stop at "back" on the way to upback for a split second, and that gets me a standing normal.