Topic: Street Fighter X Tekken

[Xxenace]

someone in japan just needs to put ono in like a 2 year timeout from fighting games

[LouisCipher]

His reasoning is probably this: (capcom game + features^n) + casual players = success!!! That or something similar to it...

You may be right, but take for example MK9. That did really well, like 6 million copies well. It has plenty of offline shit but also has a decent online and it's not a super complex game. Anyone who's familiar with the basics of fighters or have played other fighters but necessarily MK can figure out what's going on very easily and follow it along.

But this... dear god. So doing L,M,H is a basic combo. But doing two H's launches them, and then do Medium Kick and Punch to tag, but QCB+ Kick and punch does a different tag, and qcf+Kick and Punch does a super? But doing  Heavy Punch and Heavy Kick launches them and has lower invincibiltiy. And then Gems and... Scanners (1981) Head Explosion Shot

[Saitsuofleaves]

His reasoning is probably this: (capcom game + features^n) + casual players = success!!! That or something similar to it...

You may be right, but take for example MK9. That did really well, like 6 million copies well. It has plenty of offline shit but also has a decent online and it's not a super complex game. Anyone who's familiar with the basics of fighters or have played other fighters but necessarily MK can figure out what's going on very easily and follow it along.

But this... dear god. So doing L,M,H is a basic combo. But doing two H's launches them, and then do Medium Kick and Punch to tag, but QCB+ Kick and punch does a different tag, and qcf+Kick and Punch does a super? But doing  Heavy Punch and Heavy Kick launches them and has lower invincibiltiy. And then Gems and... Scanners (1981) Head Explosion Shot

Most of the systems aren't that confusing.  It's the fact that they're shoehorned into the game randomly and inorganically.

Like I said in an earlier post, up until Cross Assault, everything flowed naturally and made some kind of sense.  Cross Assault made sense as well even if it wasn't well liked.  If they had stopped there, and went back and then did these tweaks, then it'd be fine.  Like say we got up to this point without Gems and Pandora and they said the new tweaks to Cross Arts and Super Charges and Raw Launchers, and I would've loved it.  They would've given EVERY subsystem in the game a reason to exist.  But then they made Cross Rush really meh, and they added Pandora and Gems, and it just became a clusterfuck. 

Gems would've been a lot better suited for a more one on one based game (hell, World Tour Mode in SFA3 was basically like Gems, save it for a SFA game if you make another one).  On top of that, they're not unlocked from the beginning and they might be DLC?  That's like telling Ryu players in the SF4 series "You're stuck with Metsu Shoryu as an Ultra unless you pay a fee to get Metsu Hadoken" which makes it a Pay to Win game, and makes it a nightmare for TO's to deal with.

I've never seen a game go in such a wrong direction mid-development.  Everyone says they love canceling chains into specials, they take it out.  Everyone likes most of the systems, and they keep adding ones that infuriate people.  I mean, I know it's Ono and all, but you'd think after 3 SF4 games, he'd know what people would expect.  It's just...I'm completely baffled at these decisions.  I'll still hold judgment because like I said, still another half a year to go but...idk, I just don't know.

[solidshark]

After watching a whole bunch of story/scenario advertising for SFxT (advertising is really what Capcom is best at now), anyone else feel like they'd rather see a movie or series of SF and Tekken characters moreso than playing the game? It's like an on/off hype switch; whenever I see the Ryu/Ken/Nina/Kazuya, or King/Marduk/Hugo/Poison/Cody&Guy, or the Rufus/Bob/Zangief/Julia, the switch is on. Gameplay (specifically playing and graphics) - off. Feels like it's souring things for me.

I've already got my Rolento/Raven/Yoshi/Hwoarang team options, but I barely feel the need to explore the game any further than them, and I try to explore all fighters and systems in a game to some degree.

[Saitsuofleaves]

http://www.capcom-unity.com/gregaman/blog/2011/10/20/dev_blog:_new_york_comic_con_wrap-up

Well there's a dev blog  up for SFxT and it's mostly talking about the Gem System.  I'll give them credit for him, going back and pretty much saying "Yeah, I understand you're freaked so let me try and break it down so you're not". 

The thing is though is that I don't think they understand WHY we're freaked.  It's not the Gems themselves really (though Auto-Block/Tech really has people on edge, but after seeing a video of it on the blog...seems really meh lol, that gem pretty much says you lose a meter for fucking up a block and your opponent can maintain pressure), but it's the concept that DLC gems might happen.

Capcom, simple prospect.  No DLC Gems (or at least, make them free) and have some kind of Tourney Unlock Code for TO's, and Gems aren't hated anymore.

[thec0re3]

http://www.capcom-unity.com/gregaman/blog/2011/10/20/dev_blog:_new_york_comic_con_wrap-up

Well there's a dev blog  up for SFxT and it's mostly talking about the Gem System.  I'll give them credit for him, going back and pretty much saying "Yeah, I understand you're freaked so let me try and break it down so you're not". 

The thing is though is that I don't think they understand WHY we're freaked.  It's not the Gems themselves really (though Auto-Block/Tech really has people on edge, but after seeing a video of it on the blog...seems really meh lol, that gem pretty much says you lose a meter for fucking up a block and your opponent can maintain pressure), but it's the concept that DLC gems might happen.

Well at least this is making KOFXIII look better and better everyday as the new competitive game of choice besides UMVSC3 so its not all bad news. Yeah I agree it is though two gems that cause a concern but the fact of the matter is the individual still has to be able to unlock the ability it doesn't seem like it will be as easy as people believe it will be but time will tell.

Capcom, simple prospect.  No DLC Gems (or at least, make them free) and have some kind of Tourney Unlock Code for TO's, and Gems aren't hated anymore.

[Saitsuofleaves]

Except it really isn't.  SFxT would have to be completely panned out of the gate for people to not play it.  It's a Capcom game...I mean, even Capcom Fighting Jam got play for a while.  KOFXIII isn't gonna look any better in comparison when there's still a crapton of games it has to beat out.

It also doesn't help that it's pinned between UMvC3 and AE '12 aka Apology Edition.

See, this is more of a reason that delay might hurt them (though I do appreciate SNKP taking their time).  If KOFXIII had released tomorrow, it could've rode the wave of SFxT hate.  Now, UMvC3, which is no longer the worst thing in the world, will be getting that wave.

[LouisCipher]

I don't think SF X TK is going to be a hit for a couple of reasons:

1: Lack of hype from Joe Schmoe. I don't think the casuals really wanted a crossover, not unless there's recognizable superheroes. Tekken does respectable numbers but it's not a huge part of gamer culture in the West.

2: The inevitable Super or Ultimate SF X TK. You know they're going to do it. There's no doubt they're going to do that and I think consumers who were rightly pissed with UMVC3 are going to wait it out until a cheaper version of the game comes out with more characters and that's because...

3: The market is almost flooded. There's so many fighters out right now, and Joe Schmoe is not going to take the time to get good at all of them, or even one of them. At the very least they will rent the game.

I think it's going to sell a million copies tops.

[Saitsuofleaves]

At the very least, I don't wanna pass COMPLETE judgement, it still has 6 months to go.

[thec0re3]

Except it really isn't.  SFxT would have to be completely panned out of the gate for people to not play it.  It's a Capcom game...I mean, even Capcom Fighting Jam got play for a while.  KOFXIII isn't gonna look any better in comparison when there's still a crapton of games it has to beat out.

It also doesn't help that it's pinned between UMvC3 and AE '12 aka Apology Edition.

See, this is more of a reason that delay might hurt them (though I do appreciate SNKP taking their time).  If KOFXIII had released tomorrow, it could've rode the wave of SFxT hate.  Now, UMvC3, which is no longer the worst thing in the world, will be getting that wave.

I with u on waiting to see it before I judge it. SFXT still has a lot of hype to build on before it comes out and capcom can have a change of heart at any moment depending on how they really view the communities feeling about the gem system.

From a competitive perspective I do feel like KOFXIII now has a better chance to get a lot more lime light as far as streams are concerned. UMVSC3 probably will have the most popularity and there is a good chance that AE 2012 might also but before this Gem system debacle SFXT was primed as being the next big thing now it doesn't look like it will be if it isn't  tournament worthy. I know capcom is the god father of fighting games so I could never see them loosing that reign they would just as fast throw out a new SF before that happened. I can't deny that we are starting to experience another saturated market when it comes to fighters but with the advent of online gaming now being a big stable of the fighting genre it has a better chance of it not burning out like it has in the past.
 

[Saitsuofleaves]

Except it really isn't.  SFxT would have to be completely panned out of the gate for people to not play it.  It's a Capcom game...I mean, even Capcom Fighting Jam got play for a while.  KOFXIII isn't gonna look any better in comparison when there's still a crapton of games it has to beat out.

It also doesn't help that it's pinned between UMvC3 and AE '12 aka Apology Edition.

See, this is more of a reason that delay might hurt them (though I do appreciate SNKP taking their time).  If KOFXIII had released tomorrow, it could've rode the wave of SFxT hate.  Now, UMvC3, which is no longer the worst thing in the world, will be getting that wave.

I with u on waiting to see it before I judge it. SFXT still has a lot of hype to build on before it comes out and capcom can have a change of heart at any moment depending on how they really view the communities feeling about the gem system.

From a competitive perspective I do feel like KOFXIII now has a better chance to get a lot more lime light as far as streams are concerned. UMVSC3 probably will have the most popularity and there is a good chance that AE 2012 might also but before this Gem system debacle SFXT was primed as being the next big thing now it doesn't look like it will be if it isn't  tournament worthy. I know capcom is the god father of fighting games so I could never see them loosing that reign they would just as fast throw out a new SF before that happened. I can't deny that we are starting to experience another saturated market when it comes to fighters but with the advent of online gaming now being a big stable of the fighting genre it has a better chance of it not burning out like it has in the past.
 

As far as streams go?  Meh...UMvC3 will likely be the big market game for streams from this point forward (consider the hype at Season's Beatings for a lame duck game), and Apology Edition will get it's underscore time as well.  Idk if you've watched many streams recently, but unless the streamers decide to do a 2+ Stream format, where the main stream will have those two main games and they'll have another for side games (which more and more Tourneys seem to be adopting thankfully), KOFXIII will still have a hard time getting seen.

At this point, instead of KOFXIII worrying about the main games it should worry about surpassing the undercard.  In other words, beating out MK9, BB:CS2+, Skullgirls, and TTT2/SCV.  Now as of its release, XIII should get its time since the undercard will be relatively mellowed out.  But I think it's a bit much to expect it to get its spot among those two main games, even though it should.  At best, it COULD cut into Apology Edition's watches, but I doubt it.

It would help to have really solid players though to show off the game on release and get the word out.

[baccano1932]

At the very least, I don't wanna pass COMPLETE judgement, it still has 6 months to go.

I also agree with you on this and I think everyone should read an article Keits of SRK posted detailing some of the issues surrounding the gem system.
http://shoryuken.com/2011/10/23/why-street-fighter-x-tekkens-gems-could-be-problematic-for-tournaments/

[Saitsuofleaves]

At the very least, I don't wanna pass COMPLETE judgement, it still has 6 months to go.

I also agree with you on this and I think everyone should read an article Keits of SRK posted detailing some of the issues surrounding the gem system.
http://shoryuken.com/2011/10/23/why-street-fighter-x-tekkens-gems-could-be-problematic-for-tournaments/

Already read it.  Like I've said previously, only thing I can really hope for is the ability to not use gems, not so much a no gems option but just the ability to not have to use them.

[TheRook]

SFxTK is something special to me as it seems really good, Gems didnt really screw with my hype after i got over it, more or less now, im interested in what Gems are actually in the game now~ but i dont want to keep talking about Gems...actually...im sick of it...

Character wise...the last teaser pic that TrollOno posted pretty much summed up my Team~ though i will use Cammy on reserve~

overall i have the Collectors Edition on Reserve...like the other 3 fighting games that have one....and KOF of course. but I feel like i will Double Dip for this game when I get a Vita as well~ it seems like the right thing to do..you know with that shareable DLC and online play~ thats just awesome imo.

anyways please avoid talking about GEMS!!! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!

[Saitsuofleaves]

That's not possible therook.  Unlike UMvC3 where Heroes and Heralds mode is optional and therefore easy to avoid talking about...Gems are EXTREMELY important to the game and its longevity.