Author Topic: KOF XIII 10th General Thread: America on Top (@EVO2013), Everyone Back to Work!  (Read 121646 times)

pablofsi

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Those 2 are boring.

solidshark

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I understand your preference RW, but I really don't agree with the "This is not what KOF was about," or even "is about." The differences in every KOF I believe should be more or less celebrated. Whether it's characters, systems, etc, there's always something each game has to make it different from another year or entry. Most people will have benchmarks for KOF, like '98 or '02 being the high-points of the series, and that's fine. Extensive combos in XIII may not be what most KOFs are about, but it is a high point for XIII in my opinion.
 
For those who've come in to KOF via XIII, if they've liked the longer HD combos and the next changes things up, or even goes back to being really close to how 98 plays (which makes sense now, as most of the dream matches have reverted back to the classic style), their shouldn't be an old vs new argument going where people talk and complain about what KOF is supposed to be; it's all a matter of preference.

Also disagree with Garou or RB2 being boring, but that's me.
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marchefelix

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It's not what KOF was about.

This little statement...

I have a huge problem with this statement. But before I explain why, let me set the record straight.

I have no problem with people having their opinions when it comes to likes and dislikes. But when you say that something is "supposed" to be a certain way, that's entirely different. A statement like that reeks of arrogance. What you're basically saying is "Don't do it like this, SNK. Do it like that, because that's how I like it."

As to the whole "it's not what KOF is about" thing, you need to understand that there is no one way that KOF is supposed to be like. KOF is like however the developers want it to be. At one point, they wanted KOF to have strikers. At another point they wanted it to be a tag battle. And now, they want it to be a game with long combos. This is what makes KOF so great: that it's dynamic as opposed to static. If it were static, it would get boring real quick (which is why I can't enjoy Call of Duty anymore).

Think of it like this: say your favorite KOF game is '98. You love everything about it. What would you prefer? KOF '98 thirteen times over? Or thirteen KOF games with one of those being '98?

What I'm really trying to say is that by all means everyone can have likes and dislikes (that's what opinions are all about). BUT! Unless you created something or helped create it, it is not your place to say how something is supposed to be. Period. (Why do you think so many parents hate it when someone else tells them how to raise their kids? Or, a different example: what if you create a robot for x reason and someone comes and tells you it's supposed to be done for y reason?)
« Last Edit: August 23, 2013, 03:37:25 AM by marchefelix »

desmond_kof

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It's not what KOF was about.

This little statement...

I have a huge problem with this statement. But before I explain why, let me set the record straight.

I have no problem with people having their opinions when it comes to likes and dislikes. But when you say that something is "supposed" to be a certain way, that's entirely different. A statement like that reeks of arrogance. What you're basically saying is "Don't do it like this, SNK. Do it like that, because that's how I like it."

As to the whole "it's not what KOF is about" thing, you need to understand that there is no one way that KOF is supposed to be like. KOF is like however the developers want it to be. At one point, they wanted KOF to have strikers. At another point they wanted it to be a tag battle. And now, they want it to be a game with long combos. This is what makes KOF so great: that it's dynamic as opposed to static. If it were static, it would get boring real quick (which is why I can't enjoy Call of Duty anymore).

Think of it like this: say your favorite KOF game is '98. You love everything about it. What would you prefer? KOF '98 thirteen times over? Or thirteen KOF games with one of those being '98?

What I'm really trying to say is that by all means everyone can have likes and dislikes (that's what opinions are all about). BUT! Unless you created something or helped create it, it is not your place to say how something is supposed to be. Period. (Why do you think so many parents hate it when someone else tells them how to raise their kids? Or, a different example: what if you create a robot for x reason and someone comes and tells you it's supposed to be done for y reason?)

Now, if you would've said all of this earlier without attacking yamazaky96 (or anyone) it would've been okay. This is a right and wrong way to respond to people. Next time, do it the right way.

Also, you can always just NOT CARE what that person is saying how a certain thing is supposed to be. Just read it, disagree to yourself, and move on.
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Running Wild

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When you get right down to it, XIII doesn't really do anything new besides dumbing down old gameplay mechanics and butchering characters movesets.

The Fluke

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Isn't that a bit harsh? There are certainly dumb things in kof13 but overall it's well balanced and every character has clearly been designed to function well, they all have what they need to to fill their archetypes without much pointless stuff added on top.

How does kof13 butcher characters movesets? It has indeed changed some characters, but that has happened all throughout kofs existence so please be specific. Also, what mechanics have been dumbed down?

Running Wild

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I disagree, I don't think it's well balanced at all and some character functions leave me scratching my head.

The thing is, characters throughout KOF usually gained moves on top of retaining many of their trademark moves. Ryo is one of my favorite examples of this, just compare him from 94 to XI, he was no doubt at his peak in XI. Now he's back to being a pretty boring and vanilla Ryo, he's lost a ton of stuff that made him versatile. Then there's Ralf and Clark, those two grew alot throughout the KOF series. Looking at the duo in XIII, they've lost alot of what made them so versatile as well. I think Ralf lacking the SAB hurts him alot, while Clark lost alot of moves that made him a real threat.

Occasionally a character would do a complete 360 like Kensou and Robert in 1999/2000, or Takuma in 2002, but some of the changes and/or reversions made in XIII seem to be for the worse. In 1996 SNK wanted to lessen the effect of zoning in KOF by giving many characters short range projectiles, and while this had some mixed results, I think Andy was one of the best to benefit from this change as he gained new moves to compliment it, he went from being a SNK shoto to pure rushdown style with high/low mix-ups, plus a proximity unblockable. Now he's basically in the same boat as Ryo.

Takuma I think is a pretty decent attempt on taking a new spin on an old favorite, and although the things he is capable of now is utterly ridiculous, I like where they went with him, although I do miss the Moko Buraigan. But it's obvious they had to cut corners on him, I mean c'mon... Kyokugen Kou'ou Ken? The lack of his overhead command normal is disheartening too.

I think the character that has it the worst though is Maxima. His entire special move list is some variation of the Vapor Canon. He lost a ton of stuff. It's like all he has to compensate for it is large amounts of guard points, but even then, his normals have never been slower and his moveset anymore lacking.

Then there's characters like Duo Lon... I remember Duo Lon being a real piece of work in his debut in 2003 and in XI, but I feel like he was just cut in half. Then there's Chin... I feel like Chin is just a really gimmicky character now, he lost alot of what made him unique.

I just think for the next KOF title, it needs to be fleshed out more. XIII just leaves me feeling like it's still pretty barebones for a KOF game, and I'm not fond of the game revolving around loops like if it was some kind of anime/marvel game.

The Fluke

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I can't say that i've played alot of kof11, but what i played of it i did play with Ryo in my team. It's probably my lack of experience with 11 but he doesn't seem on par with his 13 version.

Ralf has good frametraps, a super fast hop with super fast attacks, great reach and very damaging combos now. His lack of a command throw isn't a problem to me, but i wouldn't mind him getting it back. Clark is a pain in the ass as he is now imo as he just consists of the one same mixup situation over and over that does get frustrating. I don't know what Duo Lon had before, but he is good now.

I'm just bad against Maxima so i can't really say how good/bad he is now. But yeah, he is certainly slow and one sided, it seems to work though. A similar example, i play goro, he's got very basic hitconfirms and just a few fancy things going for him. He's still cool though. He grabs people and he does it well. Point being, a character doesn't need alot to be good/fun.

Chin is really strong and his overhead mixups do scare me because it feels like once you react to a fake overhead being fake, the low is already out there. The weirdest thing about him now though is that he seems to be built with a "just do it" kind of mentality in mind.

Andy being a "shoto" again may be sad, especially for andy players, but the shoto's in 13 are varied, Andy/Robert/Athena for example all feel different and have different things going for them aside from fireball/dragon punch. So i feel that he does fill a function that could be missed if he was changed from how he is now.

The risk i see with adding too much stuff to the characters is that they may end up losing personality. Like Mai for example, her midscreen game pretty much revolves around getting the opponent to the corner. I honestly wouldn't mind her getting something more added to her arsenal, but if she gets too much she might end up being too much like Joe (who already is pretty similar) but with better normals and movement.

I don't mind simple HD loops tbh but i do prefer more creative combos overall. I really enjoy seeing Mr.Kof's Ash because of how long he keeps on juggling the opponent. I wouldn't enjoy it if all characters worked like that, but it's Ash's moment to shine.

solidshark

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Trademark moves with their own animations are great, but I think the EX moves that have different properties from the non could count as additional moves, even at the cost of meter. (XIII) Kyo gets a command grab in EX Kotokskio (hcb+BD), Benimaru gets a tracking projectile in EX Benimaru Lancer (qcb+AC), Mr. Karate gets a counter attack in EX Hakyokujin (qcb+AC); it's probably the best compromise between being barebones like XII, or having pages plenty of moves to choose from like the UM titles.
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pablofsi

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Running Wild: I think you didn't understand the whole scale they are following regarding movesets. It has to do with "new beginning". XII = '94. XIII = '95 with HD combos ala 2002 to play safe and inflate their wallets.

Besides, you are talking as if versatility should be the objective of any character design or the ultimate trait. It's just a style. There are many usable and possible styles.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2013, 07:34:32 PM by pablofsi »

sibarraz

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Well, after a lot time where I decided to focus in college plus the fact that I forgot my password, I decided to return

How is the netcode doing? at least I had heard that there has been an improvent, so don't know how big has been


Waifu Material

Amedø310

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Well, so far, the netcode has gone through a few versions. It is currently at version 4.1 and the reception for it has been very positive. The netcode is much better than the console atm.

Killey

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The net code was at it's worst with v3.0 but v4.0 was a significant improvement over it but not where it should be at. I haven't gotten a chance to test v4.1 yet since it got released while I was sleeping.

The 1-2 bar connections are significantly better than the console versions and I've only tested a 3 bar connection once and it was bad but there's variables with that. I haven't seen any 4 bar connections.

Running Wild

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Before there was XIII Clark

Clark KOF 2001 100% Combo

Coliflowerz

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So you preferred Clark when his 100% combo was a couple of Gatling Attacks? You know, there's this game called Marvel I think you'd might me interested in...

Nonetheless, I started with XIII, but I took the time to look into older KOFs to appreciate the characters I like to play now. I'm saddened, sure, that many characters lost their moves. I thought Maxima's moveset was lackluster even before I knew about his old one.

However, in the sense of movesets, I kind of understand why they toned down. There's this game out there called Tales of Arc Strife Cadenza, which is a fan made fighting game based off the Tales of series. Take a look at this command list for one character, Yuri Lowell, and you try and guess how many are useful. http://acs.wikia.com/wiki/Command_List:_Yuri_Lowell

Not counting the supers, probably 9.

I think SNK was thinking, "Everything in moderation". And what they had, they made amazing aesthetically, and gameplay wise. Every character is practical and beautifully animated. Less is more, I guess. Ultimately, they wanted something new. Would you rather have KOF be like COD?

And it doesn't "revolve" around loops. The core of KOF is still there.

But, to each their own.
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