KOF XIII 10th General Thread: America on Top (@EVO2013), Everyone Back to Work!

[Coffeeling]

13 is so good that the new game is very likely to be worse.

It would be pretty hard to make a KOF game as shitty as 13 is.

Then again there are so many shitty KOF games... it wouldn't be hard at all.

I'm praying we get a fighting game from SNK that isn't KOF.

O_o
Can you elaborate, perhaps? Because KOF13 seems pretty amazing to me.

[marchefelix]

^I can sum up every KOF XIII hater's dislike for the game in one statement:

It's not '98/'02 (in other words, stuck on nostalgia).

lol

[Running Wild]

'02 (in other words, stuck on nostalgia).

02 (vanilla) is imo one of the worst KOF's.

But it's the 2nd most popular game on GGPO, so what do I know...

[Mr Bakaboy]

If I was summing up a guess to why the KOF XIII hate it would be the push of combos in a fighting game system that never pushed it as much before. If you look at '98, KOF is mostly footsies based.

This would be like taking the Marvel vs series and making Marvel vs. Capcom 4 with ridiculously toned down combos, and high footsies priorties. The OG Mahrvel community would go nuts.

[marchefelix]

02 (vanilla) is imo one of the worst KOF's.

Agreed.

If I was summing up a guess to why the KOF XIII hate it would be the push of combos in a fighting game system that never pushed it as much before. If you look at '98, KOF is mostly footsies based.

I never got why people like '98 so much. It's fun to play, but as you said, it's mostly footsie-based, and that IMO makes it a boring game to watch oftentimes. People should be welcoming a KOF that's more exciting to watch, which in return makes it fun to play... unless you suck at it. :P

This is why I can only sum up the reason for KOF XIII hate as nostalgia.

[Coffeeling]

If I was summing up a guess to why the KOF XIII hate it would be the push of combos in a fighting game system that never pushed it as much before. If you look at '98, KOF is mostly footsies based.

This would be like taking the Marvel vs series and making Marvel vs. Capcom 4 with ridiculously toned down combos, and high footsies priorties. The OG Mahrvel community would go nuts.

I think combos are just the easy scapegoat. Sure, some people really dislike the combos.
But compare:
KOF 98 Cafeid Madkof vs China Team
KOFXIII Exhibition - @A3Religion Vs. SS Zeal

It's not really the combos that are on display in the second video. They're just playing the neutral game and trading short sequences for the most part. What's interesting is that the neutral game looks a lot different. '98 is a lot more static, measure-distance-of-pokes-to-the-pixel style, very Street Fighter -esque if you will, while 13's high horizontal movement rate compared to limb lengths lends the game a very different feel, one that's a lot more about hyperactive movement and constant vying for position. Situations don't last anywhere near as long as in '98, let alone SF. So I think combos are largely blameless - it's the movement, folks.

...and some grognards complaining that you should AA with specials instead of buttons now and how that's totally not KOF, but I guess it is inevitable :D

02 (vanilla) is imo one of the worst KOF's.

Agreed.

If I was summing up a guess to why the KOF XIII hate it would be the push of combos in a fighting game system that never pushed it as much before. If you look at '98, KOF is mostly footsies based.

I never got why people like '98 so much. It's fun to play, but as you said, it's mostly footsie-based, and that IMO makes it a boring game to watch oftentimes. People should be welcoming a KOF that's more exciting to watch, which in return makes it fun to play... unless you suck at it. :P

This is why I can only sum up the reason for KOF XIII hate as nostalgia.

A game can be an absolute riot to play and still be complete ass to watch. As a fresh example, Killer Instinct. It's just about the most unwatchable fighting game ever made, yet apparently really fun to play. SFxT suffers a bit of the same fate. So people liking KOF because playing it makes them happy is a very understandable reason to like it a ton.

Or, say, my main game MTG. Utterly, utterly unwatchable for most people, yet the game is an absolute blast to play and interesting to read about. Meanwhile I find SF4 increasingly insufferable to actually play, but it's still very fun to watch and analyze. As long as I don't have to actually play Forklift Fighter 4.

Fun factor != watchability.

That said, I still don't understand the KOF13 hate :P

[desmond_kof]

If I was summing up a guess to why the KOF XIII hate it would be the push of combos in a fighting game system that never pushed it as much before. If you look at '98, KOF is mostly footsies based.

I agree with this. I love playing KOFXIII but one of my main grips is that it is extremely combo focused and dominate. All you need to do in KOFXIII is just hit confirm well then not drop the HD combo. In '98/'02 it's a more spacial game, you can win just off poking, good zoning, good pressure, good mind games and bnb's....you can do a little bit of that in KOFXIII but it can all go to waste if you screw up and get hit once against someone that has a decent amount of meters. >_<

[jinxhand]

If I was summing up a guess to why the KOF XIII hate it would be the push of combos in a fighting game system that never pushed it as much before. If you look at '98, KOF is mostly footsies based.

I agree with this. I love playing KOFXIII but one of my main grips is that it is extremely combo focused and dominate. All you need to do in KOFXIII is just hit confirm well then not drop the HD combo. In '98/'02 it's a more spacial game, you can win just off poking, good zoning, good pressure, good mind games and bnb's....you can do a little bit of that in KOFXIII but it can all go to waste if you screw up and get hit once against someone that has a decent amount of meters. >_<

This reason is exactly why alot of the OG KOF players went back to 98/02.

[Mr Bakaboy]

If I was summing up a guess to why the KOF XIII hate it would be the push of combos in a fighting game system that never pushed it as much before. If you look at '98, KOF is mostly footsies based.

I never got why people like '98 so much. It's fun to play, but as you said, it's mostly footsie-based, and that IMO makes it a boring game to watch oftentimes. People should be welcoming a KOF that's more exciting to watch, which in return makes it fun to play... unless you suck at it. :P

This is why I can only sum up the reason for KOF XIII hate as nostalgia.

Old school KOF is really for a certain type of player. I am that type of old school type of player so I enjoy those games. That being said though I do play KOF XIII and enjoy it. If the netcode was better I would play the heck out of it.

It's not really the combos that are on display in the second video. They're just playing the neutral game and trading short sequences for the most part. What's interesting is that the neutral game looks a lot different. '98 is a lot more static, measure-distance-of-pokes-to-the-pixel style, very Street Fighter -esque if you will, while 13's high horizontal movement rate compared to limb lengths lends the game a very different feel, one that's a lot more about hyperactive movement and constant vying for position. Situations don't last anywhere near as long as in '98, let alone SF. So I think combos are largely blameless - it's the movement, folks. :D

KOF XIII can be played in different ways, yes, however the comeback mechanic is still there. What you are saying is like saying I can find a video of 3rd Strike high level players that don't parry. Are they out there, yes. Is it odd to see high level 3rd Strike players not using that mechanic at all, yes. The combos in XIII are such a huge game changer that if you are a footsies player, and I am, it's quite an uphill battle to play high level. However that doesn't mean that we hate KOF XIII. It's just a reason why people get frustrated with it. For the most part I'm playing devil's advocate here.

A game can be an absolute riot to play and still be complete ass to watch. As a fresh example, Killer Instinct. It's just about the most unwatchable fighting game ever made, yet apparently really fun to play. SFxT suffers a bit of the same fate. So people liking KOF because playing it makes them happy is a very understandable reason to like it a ton.

Well here I disagree. I find Killer Instinct a blast to watch at a high level. It's got everything I wish KOF XIII did. Ways to break long string combos is a footsies player's dream when stuck with the new crop of fighting games. All the while I see plenty of combos knocking off 80% damage. Compare that to SFxTK where a lot of the game is straight poking and that's about it. Some of it is worse then any fighting game I can recall since a few players can sit in one spot and poke (I call it fishing since it doesn't do justice to call it poking). To me SFxTK is straight unwatchable considering I love footsies that's saying a lot.

When it comes down to it it's all in what you prefer to watch and play. To me I can barely watch Marvel cause it's extremely boring watching players string a slow combo for 30+ seconds to kill one character at a time or fill the screen with a ton of fireballs. However I am the minority when it comes to that cause Mahrvel does amazing numbers.

[jinxhand]

'02 (in other words, stuck on nostalgia).

02 (vanilla) is imo one of the worst KOF's.

Care to elaborate???

[desmond_kof]

'02 (in other words, stuck on nostalgia).

02 (vanilla) is imo one of the worst KOF's.

Care to elaborate???

Ehhh, I think people should care less about other peoples opinion on why they think a game is bad. Let's keep things moving forward.

[jinxhand]

Ehhh, I think people should care less about other peoples opinion on why they think a game is bad. Let's keep things moving forward.

I'm more curious as to whether or not this is a general opinion that has grown overtime, or if this was something that was already there. I'm more open-minded and less dogmatic towards things like this, hence me asking this question... Either way, I still play the game... I prefer 02UM slightly over 02, but to each his/her own.

[yamazaky96]

I agree with this. I love playing KOFXIII but one of my main grips is that it is extremely combo focused and dominate. All you need to do in KOFXIII is just hit confirm well then not drop the HD combo. In '98/'02 it's a more spacial game, you can win just off poking, good zoning, good pressure, good mind games and bnb's....you can do a little bit of that in KOFXIII but it can all go to waste if you screw up and get hit once against someone that has a decent amount of meters. >_<

wow
I think that is the main reason I dont enjoy playing kofxiii more than 10 matches in a raw
I just feel i'm fed up with all the repetitive combos and the loops
and I never enjoy watching KOFXIII matches unless in a grand final of a major tournament or something

[Coffeeling]

If I was summing up a guess to why the KOF XIII hate it would be the push of combos in a fighting game system that never pushed it as much before. If you look at '98, KOF is mostly footsies based.

I agree with this. I love playing KOFXIII but one of my main grips is that it is extremely combo focused and dominate. All you need to do in KOFXIII is just hit confirm well then not drop the HD combo. In '98/'02 it's a more spacial game, you can win just off poking, good zoning, good pressure, good mind games and bnb's....you can do a little bit of that in KOFXIII but it can all go to waste if you screw up and get hit once against someone that has a decent amount of meters. >_<

The "you just have to hit confirm well and not drop the HD combo" is an exaggeration and you know it. HD combos aren't a factor for the first character, and usually for either the second or the third one. The lesser emphasis on single hits still stands, though, but especially in the early rounds shorter combos can do just fine, and even later on something like button, button, EX super can do 400-500 easy, two bars no drive. If your neutral game is really superior, you can easily kill the opponent with easymode stuff.

[desmond_kof]

If I was summing up a guess to why the KOF XIII hate it would be the push of combos in a fighting game system that never pushed it as much before. If you look at '98, KOF is mostly footsies based.

I agree with this. I love playing KOFXIII but one of my main grips is that it is extremely combo focused and dominate. All you need to do in KOFXIII is just hit confirm well then not drop the HD combo. In '98/'02 it's a more spacial game, you can win just off poking, good zoning, good pressure, good mind games and bnb's....you can do a little bit of that in KOFXIII but it can all go to waste if you screw up and get hit once against someone that has a decent amount of meters. >_<

The "you just have to hit confirm well and not drop the HD combo" is an exaggeration and you know it. HD combos aren't a factor for the first character, and usually for either the second or the third one. The lesser emphasis on single hits still stands, though, but especially in the early rounds shorter combos can do just fine, and even later on something like button, button, EX super can do 400-500 easy, two bars no drive. If your neutral game is really superior, you can easily kill the opponent with easymode stuff.

I was referring mainly to the 2nd or 3rd person of a team. The first character just builds meter and momentum. If they stick around, they can surely blow the meter to finish the match. When a character in a 2nd or 3rd position has full drive and full meters, all they need to do is land one hit into a high damaging HD combo of their choice...that's the preferred option.