Author Topic: Fighter's History Dynamite (Karnov's Revenge)  (Read 17844 times)

jinxhand

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Fighter's History Dynamite (Karnov's Revenge)
« on: March 28, 2011, 11:06:05 PM »
Ok, ok, so Fighter's History was deemed a "SF-clone" by Capcom in the original one (they took them to court)... So eventually a better, more original version was released, with 4 buttons instead of 6, plus the bosses were playable... This game is still heavily played in parts of Japan, as well as GGPO... Despite the Karnov teleport glitch, and the tier list, all characters are still playable (maybe not Feilin Ryoko as much)... What do you think???

Discuss...
« Last Edit: March 29, 2011, 05:24:54 AM by jinxhand »

jedpossum

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Re: Fighter's History Dynamite (Karnov's Revenge)
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2011, 03:35:29 AM »
You should replace Feilin with Ryoko.

krazykone123

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Re: Fighter's History Dynamite (Karnov's Revenge)
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2011, 04:45:09 AM »
Ryoko is the reason why I play FHD.

jinxhand

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Re: Fighter's History Dynamite (Karnov's Revenge)
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2011, 05:24:35 AM »
You should replace Feilin with Ryoko.


Yeah you're right... I forgot about how bad she was... I just always remember people bashing Feilin...

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Re: Fighter's History Dynamite (Karnov's Revenge)
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2011, 05:50:11 AM »
I play it from time to time, just haven't tried it on GGPO yet. It's silly as hell, too.

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It's fast and it has some unique mechanics, so I respect it in that regard for at least being different from SF2. I'm not like some Capcom fanboy, well I did grow up with Street Fighter, but now I prefer KOF and Guilty Gear, because they have some great gameplay mechanics Capcom decided to use for themselves, and I think they should have more people playing them. still play SF2/A/3.

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Re: Fighter's History Dynamite (Karnov's Revenge)
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2011, 07:29:31 AM »
I like how you can do tricks like doing Zazie's uppercut from the dash special... It takes some practice to get down, but that trick alone takes him up a tier higher, because the dash dodges projectiles (and I believe some other attacks) and the uppercut acts as a counter...

One thing that still boggles my mind is Marstorius' tier placing... Some people say that he's bottom tier, but from the matches I've seen, he should be mid to upper mid, and others have stated the same thing... I know his matchups aren't always in his favor, and it can take him some time to get in, but once he gets in, the damage is unbelievable... That alone makes me think he should be placed higher...

jedpossum

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Re: Fighter's History Dynamite (Karnov's Revenge)
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2011, 07:50:51 PM »
Matlok
Don't play every match up like guile or you will lose.

Normals to pay attention too.

 ;b your standard poke

 ;up + ;a has great priority when it comes to air to air normals can beat some Anti Airs.

 ;dn + ;b should be your common Anti Air.

 ;dn + ;d His sweep it has great range.

Special Moves

Spinning Blade
 ;bk Charge  ;fd + ;a or ;b

His standard projectile. It has an infinite if you know how the game slowdown works.

Hurricane Kick
 ;dn Charge ;up + ;c or ;d

This is his most useless move it sucks as an Anti Air(but decent against the mighty BALLOON). When you see some one does this is either just started playing or did on accident. The only use you can get out of it is to combo into it then again you are better off doing his super.

Overhead Kick
 ;bk Charge ;fd + ;c or ;d

This special is his most useful one. Since it can cross up, both versions are overheads,and it can hit most weak points.

Super
 ;dn Charge ;up + ;c + ;d Mash kicks to keep it going

General plan
I usually go for a dizzy and do a super till I get hit out of it.

Signed - Only Matlok main left :(.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2011, 08:01:45 PM by jedpossum »

jinxhand

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Re: Fighter's History Dynamite (Karnov's Revenge)
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2011, 07:53:35 AM »
Zazie

"Dersch!!!"

I personally feel he was one of the most original characters in the game... Plus he's from Africa, which is rare to see in a video game, let alone a fighting game... He's also a good character to learn when first getting into the game, as he's an "easy to learn, hard to master" character.


Best Normals to Use:

Standing ;b and ;dn ;b are your best standard pokes.
  *Canceling ;b into Ducking allows Zazie to close in.
  *Standing ;b also can be hit confirmed to cancel into the "Ducking-Hellfire" trick, which is one of his strongest links.

;dn ;a is your alternate "situational" poke
   *This can easily be used in combos, since it can go into his Vulcan Hook quickly and possibly dizzy the opponent.

standing ;c is the best range poke
   *Nothing is really guaranteed in this situation.

;uf ;d is great to use in the air, but it has to be timed at times to act as an anti-air.


Special Moves

Vulcan Hook - rapidly tap ;a / ;c 
   *One of the best moves in Zazie's arsenal. This move can allow Zazie to connect another Vulcan Hook from ;dn ;a if timed right. The range is also great for this move.

Chozaku Vulcan Hook - rapidly tap ;a / ;b / ;c / ;d

Hellfire - ;qcb + ;a / ;c
   *This move is good, but only in combos, and when its used for the Ducking-Hellfire trick, which will be explained later.

Ducking - ;fd ;fd + ;b / ;d
   *This is only an evasive move, which is primarily used to avoid mainly projectiles and certain other attacks. This is the first part of the "Ducking-Hellfire" trick, which makes him a stronger force to be reckoned with. To use the "Ducking-Hellfire" trick, you have to time the ;qcb + ;a / ;c right at the "midpoint" of the Ducking (at least that works for me). The input can be inputted somewhat fast, but can be buffered.

Step Back - ;fd ;bk + ;b / ;d
   *This is also an evasive move, but its not really used. I haven't used it much, since every time I attempted to use it, I got caught with an attack somehow...


Super

Deshikakato - ;up ;dn + ;b / ;d
   *From my experience, its only good when landing his close attack which hits twice. That allows easy buffering for the move.


General Plan

With Zazie, you're basically gonna poke and inch in bit by bit. Ducking can be used to bait out certain attacks, which can be punished with Vulcan Hook if in the right range. In the corner, Zazie can do ;dn + ;a , Vulcan Hook, dash in and ;dn + ;a again into another Vulcan Hook, standing ;b into "Ducking-Hellfire"... Make the opponent fear Vulcan Hook, and make them fear Ducking even more. Apply pressure with ;uf + ;d and standing ;c if desired, as the range in those moves are good.

Nocturnal

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Re: Fighter's History Dynamite (Karnov's Revenge)
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2011, 10:16:40 AM »
Zazie is not a good starting character. He's very execution heavy. I would know cause I've played the best Zazie in the US or should I say World? The easiest character to learn the game with is Ray. He's pretty much the shoto of the game and easy to pick up in a day. Though every character is pretty unique in their own ways. Jean is pretty much like Guile but a lot better. Also characters with large hitboxes like Mars tend to have real problems vs good fireball keep away characters. He can win matches yes but it's really tough. My fav character in the game is Clown, even though he has probably one of the worst dizzy spots in the game. He's a good mix of keep away mixed in with some fun mixup stuff.
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Re: Fighter's History Dynamite (Karnov's Revenge)
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2011, 05:16:31 PM »
Zazie is not a good starting character. He's very execution heavy. I would know cause I've played the best Zazie in the US or should I say World? The easiest character to learn the game with is Ray. He's pretty much the shoto of the game and easy to pick up in a day. Though every character is pretty unique in their own ways. Jean is pretty much like Guile but a lot better. Also characters with large hitboxes like Mars tend to have real problems vs good fireball keep away characters. He can win matches yes but it's really tough. My fav character in the game is Clown, even though he has probably one of the worst dizzy spots in the game. He's a good mix of keep away mixed in with some fun mixup stuff.

The reason why I said he's 'good' and not 'easy', is simply the fact that you can win matches without really taking advantage of the Ducking-Hellfire, I've seen it done... It can be hard depending on the matchup, but it can be done... If one really wants to take full advantage of him, that trick has to be "mastered", especially doing it off of a standing ;b ... Regardless of projectile characters, his Ducking goes through them, so only a few characters might pose a threat because their fireballs come out fast like Samchay's or Ray's even... Plus his combos aren't too hard once you start getting used to using the Chozaku and not the Regular Vulcan Hook... I will say it could partly be the fanboy in me that says he's good to start with, but then again I also tend to cling to pick up characters that have a medium to hard learning curve, but they don't feel hard to me I guess...

I'd easily put Ray over Zazie though in terms of learning curve, I'll definitely agree with you on that... I'd never recommend Marstorius unless you've played grappling characters (excluding Zangief players because they have easier ways to get in - lariat, green hand) , and understand that it's gonna be an up-hill climb to win...

I don't see that many Clown players, and the one's I do see kinda play cookie-cutter and get crushed... I'd like to see a good Clown, Feilin, and Yungmie...

jedpossum

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Re: Fighter's History Dynamite (Karnov's Revenge)
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2011, 10:42:52 PM »
I agree with nocturnal the only other character that would be good for beginner is Mizoguchi and Jean(If you like charge characters). A simple switch of my fireball timing and Zazie would be eating them.

Well here is my tier list I still need to fill out some things correctly.

Top 3
1.Zazie Great rush down character with a few 100% combos great specials has the best movement options out of any character in this game.

2.Karnov Most people learning this game will think he is number 1 on the surface it may seem that way. He has nice cross-ups those fireballs are blockable.

3.Ray He is great in standard shoto play good fast fireball and a good Anti Air.

Still Competitive Tier
4.Mizoguchi - has a great Air to Air game and great match ups with people that have their weak points as heads.

5.Lee - Combo Master

6.Samchay - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5diNRsy9pqw

7.Jean - He is literally the Guile of this game. His worst match-up has to be Zazie.

8.Clown - Good Mix up game better then Matlok with better AA options.

Marstorius Tier
9. Marstorius - He's a grappler get in do damage get in again. His placement always changes with the month(like an other grappler). its more on the player to make him good then anything else.

Still hanging on Tier
10.Matlok - Decent in every field but lacks Anti Air and Air to Air options compared to the rest of the cast.

11.Feilin -

12.Yungmie -

Ryoko Tier
13. Ryoko - the only reason she is bottom and not with the three above is her match up with Zazie.

Ox Tier
Ox(the only thing that is worse then Ryoko)

Edit: i realized i couldn't count
« Last Edit: April 12, 2011, 04:21:54 AM by jedpossum »

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Re: Fighter's History Dynamite (Karnov's Revenge)
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2011, 06:57:29 PM »
I'm liking that tier list... I know some people put Lee over Ray in some listings, and I agree that Marstorius should be placed in the middle, since he is a strong character, it just that as stated before, getting in close can be hard, especially since the majority of the cast throws fireballs... I think if he had some sort of lariat or green hand, then he could be easily placed in upper mid tier...

Karnov has that teleport glitch which makes him strong, and most of his combos can dizzy or take your opponent close to being dizzy with one extra hit... I think that's why most people place him at top, that and in a bunch of Japanese matches, you see more Karnov than any other character, maybe not as much as Samchay... It's strange how their love for Samchay lead to a 40-something man tourney with nothing but Samchay players... Could they be ex-ST players that use O.Sagat or is it that his strategy of fireball bombarding prefered??? I don't know...

One thing that boggles my mind is there are more Matlok players shown than Clown players... I took a look at a bunch of matches recently, and yeah Clown seems stronger than Matlok...

Ox is playable???

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Re: Fighter's History Dynamite (Karnov's Revenge)
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2011, 03:13:27 AM »
what is this?????  ;)

Nocturnal

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Re: Fighter's History Dynamite (Karnov's Revenge)
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2011, 09:44:52 AM »
I'm liking that tier list... I know some people put Lee over Ray in some listings, and I agree that Marstorius should be placed in the middle, since he is a strong character, it just that as stated before, getting in close can be hard, especially since the majority of the cast throws fireballs... I think if he had some sort of lariat or green hand, then he could be easily placed in upper mid tier...

Karnov has that teleport glitch which makes him strong, and most of his combos can dizzy or take your opponent close to being dizzy with one extra hit... I think that's why most people place him at top, that and in a bunch of Japanese matches, you see more Karnov than any other character, maybe not as much as Samchay... It's strange how their love for Samchay lead to a 40-something man tourney with nothing but Samchay players... Could they be ex-ST players that use O.Sagat or is it that his strategy of fireball bombarding prefered??? I don't know...

One thing that boggles my mind is there are more Matlok players shown than Clown players... I took a look at a bunch of matches recently, and yeah Clown seems stronger than Matlok...

Ox is playable???

Top 2 for sure are Ray and Karnov. Zazie is good but he has problems vs Karnov. Ray vs Zazie is a toss up also. I think it's more in favor to Zazie. Though overall can still be a 5-5 match. It all just depends on the skill level and match up experience.

Ox is not playable. Only way to use him is with emulator cheats. He is really bad though. He only has 1 special move and it's bad. He's pretty much a giant hitbox/punching bag. Next thing is main reason why Karnov is good is not just because of his slide teleport glitch. For starters he does have an infinite and it's possible to do in a match. Other thing also is balloon is probably one of the best special moves in the game. It beats a lot of stuff and it puts Karnov in a good position to either stop it to go into a block string/mixup. That or he can just keep doing it over and over till it will eventually hit. It can also be used to do some funky crossup stuff on wake up after you knock someone down. His combos do pretty good damage as well and can lead to easy dizzy. Yea some characters do have answers for balloon but overall it's still a really good special. The fact also that you can change the timing and control it's position makes it even better.

I know that a lot of the Japanese players that did get into FHD were mainly Guilty Gear players for the most part.
 
« Last Edit: August 29, 2011, 09:17:25 PM by Nocturnal »
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Re: Fighter's History Dynamite (Karnov's Revenge)
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2011, 05:48:38 PM »
Yeah I know Karnov's balloon is ridiculous--it's probably one of the best special moves in any 2d fighter imo next to lp shoryuken and Ralf's tackle in KOFMI... It's even crazier that you can do air attacks right after balloon hits and continue the combo once he's on the ground as well... Yeah if he couldn't do anything in the air after balloon that would hurt him a bit... It seems like he has to constantly be on the offense to really win though, as I don't see many defensive Karnovs in matches...

I've gotta see that Karnov infinite... I know about Matlok's but I didn't know Karnov had one...