Console Exclusive characters

[MUSOLINI]

i dont see how people wouldnt want to see yamazaki or oswald?

[Rex Dart]

i dont see how people wouldnt want to see yamazaki or oswald?

My only worry about Oswald would be that SNK would simply copy/paste his moves from XI. For the most part, his moves are already designed to be free-canceled, so what would he need to Drive Cancel? His HD combos seem like they'd be really brain-dead too.

Basically, if you take a combo-heavy character (K' or Kula, for example) and put them into a combo-heavy game (like XIII), you get a really broken character. And Oswald has the potential to be worse than both of them.

Obviously, they could re-make Oswald to make him a balanced and fun character. But after XIII Kula, there's no guarantee of that. I would like to see Oswald return eventually.

[Kane317]

i dont see how people wouldnt want to see yamazaki or oswald?

My only worry about Oswald would be that SNK would simply copy/paste his moves from XI. For the most part, his moves are already designed to be free-canceled, so what would he need to Drive Cancel? His HD combos seem like they'd be really brain-dead too.

Basically, if you take a combo-heavy character (K' or Kula, for example) and put them into a combo-heavy game (like XIII), you get a really broken character. And Oswald has the potential to be worse than both of them.

Obviously, they could re-make Oswald to make him a balanced and fun character. But after XIII Kula, there's no guarantee of that. I would like to see Oswald return eventually.

It's such a shame because SNKP must have spent the most time designing Oswald (in KOF history IMO) with all his wires and situational height-and-distance juggles and character specific cancel system; he definitely wasn't a last-min-job or something.  Take away his ACE damage and of course his unblockable df.A and he was one of the few top tier characters that actually took skill to really learn him.

If they can balance out Duo Lon (kinda) from his '03 version, then can do the same for Oswald.

[DarKaoZ]

That is a good point on Oswald, but I think SNKP could place him in the same category as Goro and Maxima, in which they don't have too many Drive Cancellable moves. He would only need the Drive cancel to cancel to him DMs.

Or maybe they could limit him to have 3 predetermine combinations. Like qcb+Px3, qcf+LPx3 and qcf+HPx3. And then you will be force to Drive cancel if you go to any of the others. Specially forcing the player to Drive cancel if you wan to do do the wall bounce. After the wallbounce maybe you can use an EX version of any of the 3 combinations to relaunch to wallbounce or just finish the combo. He will still be fun to play nevertheless.

[jinxhand]

Just give me Billy Kane, Heavy D!, Lin, Gai Tendo, Gato, Marco Rodriguez, and Adelheid and I'm good to go!!!

[Kane317]

That is a good point on Oswald, but I think SNKP could place him in the same category as Goro and Maxima, in which they don't have too many Drive Cancellable moves. He would only need the Drive cancel to cancel to him DMs.

Or maybe they could limit him to have 3 predetermine combinations. Like qcb+Px3, qcf+LPx3 and qcf+HPx3. And then you will be force to Drive cancel if you go to any of the others. Specially forcing the player to Drive cancel if you wan to do do the wall bounce. After the wallbounce maybe you can use an EX version of any of the 3 combinations to relaunch to wallbounce or just finish the combo. He will still be fun to play nevertheless.

Great ideas!  I think they can make special conditions for him somewhat similar to Duo Lon's f.A.  His f.A acts as a command move but can be drive canceled into, in which it acts as a special so if you do qcf+P x3, [DC] f+A, you have to [DC] out if you want to do qcf+P again.  Otherwise, DL's s.C, f+A, qcf+P x3 does not require a [DC].  Chin also have freecancels and [DC] links so I'm sure they can figure something out.  

The more I think of it, just treat it like any rekkas and just make it necessary to [DC] off the 3rd special into a 4th hit (maybe Ex only), much like Mature's links. 

[DarKaoZ]

The more I think of it, just treat it like any rekkas and just make it necessary to [DC] off the 3rd special into a 4th hit (maybe Ex only), much like Mature's links. 

Indeed that is my idea basically. They could also make his wallbounce move (QCF+K) a move by itself, so you want to cancel to it, it will be a Drive Cancel. And keep the rest of his moves like they are, that is another possibility.

[MUSOLINI]

late and nothing to do, wadda think of this:

XIII Yamazaki:
snake fist: or or . hold button 4 secs for free EX or cancel with  . normal EX done with  

Dust kick:   . EX done with  

knife:   or . EX with  

double return:     or . 98um rb2 style yamazaki, one to store and other to return whenever you want. EX with  

Axe kick:   or  . for quick 1 hit version and for double hitting high then low version.   and   for EX.  

Counter:   or .   for low and   for high counter.   and for EX.

Command grab:  or . EX with  and .


x2   or for guilotine.   and   for EX.


x2   or for drill.   and   for EX.

NM.

[DarKaoZ]

What would his EX moves do?

I would like to see Yamazaki have  + be a grab/bring over move, kinda like Vice Move.

I can just imagine the possibilities.

[MUSOLINI]

EX snake fist would be tripple snake fist from RBS but faster and last high hitting one to actually guide opponent back in your direction for an additional juggle.

dust kick like in the cvs games, hitting low. EX hits low, instant and dust travels. on hit opponent gets stun like from kulas EX breath or shens ex grab. so you can hit them but they will get launched/fall afterwards (so you cant just start a combo from normals).

EX knife would be like omega 98 rugals   moves wher he goes though you but the hits hit later (kinda like gen too). grounded opponent gets hit by all hits and takes full damage. juggled opponent only gets hit a little for minor damage, but follow up should be possible in exchange. gounded opponent should be slammed into the ground after taking the ex by a final downward hitting slash so follow ups shouldnt be possible.

double return to work like 98um rb2 version of yamazaki. EX would fire a lightning fast firebal on the upward animation of the firebal for a full screen fast punish. if opponent shoots firebal  during the sequence they get hit by your upwards fb, yamazaki absorbs your fb through it and double returns a second fb fast enough to always hit the opponent if this where to happen. the full damage should also only be when you counter your opponents fb with the EX version (so you get 2 fb's, kinda like eijis ex dm from 98um or 2k2um?).

EX axe kick has full invicibillety so it can be used as a dp and grounds opponents without chance to roll recover. light version cant be done from lights and hits only once (think cvs version) while the hard one would hit twice (kof 98 style) but first can be blocked high, also comboable from light attacks. with EX version he should also lunge himself in the air with the upward kick. his only EX with invincibiletty frames.

EX counter should counter both high and low hits and hit twice, one upward attack and another smash down attack after which they should bounce (like from ioris 13 command throw) for a potential juggle. it should look something like francos double kong from rb2 but not as low.

EX command grab should be like all other EX command grabs, have huge range and do good damage. starts of with a knee to the face, than slams you into the ground like in his ex dm's but only does it once, after which the opponent bounces back up to be hit by yamazakis biggest headbut yet, sending the opponent flying to the end of the screen at high speed. should be dc cancelable during hit.

super and ex versions of them should be the same as in the previous kof games. super throw should have weak distance but good damage and only be max cancelable. same for ex throw but longer range and more damage.

NM could be something that starts of like kyo whos throws the flame. instead yamazakis throws his knife, if it hits he flies full speed after it and performs a crazy double handed snake fist ranbu finishing in a double handed drill.

[DarKaoZ]

That sound like fun, but at the same time it sound like he will be overpowered. But then that would depend how much damage he would do per move.

For NeoMax I would prefer him to do his actual level 3 DM, well the one he has in 2002 and 2003. Yet I like how you made it start, which is by throwing the knife. It reminds me to K' Chain Drive, which makes it automatically awesome. lol

[MUSOLINI]

more like a non overpowered ultimate form. he doesnt have any crazy juggle properties and only invicibillety on EX axe kick and guilotine supers. his ex double  return wouldnt be overpowered, and it would only do good damage if it hit both hits and countered a fb with it. not to mention to combo on from such a distance you need to spend more meter on non damaging ex'es. or waste all meter on his NM. EX knife would be full screen punish but no invinc. EX dust kick tarvels futher and crumples, but doesnt allow tjat much more damage cause like kulas and shen ex, as soon as you hitn them theyd fall (meaning you cant start a ground combo with normals afterwards). EX counter like chins where you can continue but only juggle them onwards, and since yamazakis juggles aint big it doesnt even matter that much (he has to waste a lot of meters for good juggle damage). EX grab would be awesome, only after DC cancelling and possibly wasting supermeters with it can it become somewhat damaging. i think he would be the perfect contender for kof 13 console or kof 14.

[marchefelix]

If you could cut down the number of moves Yamazaki has, then it would be a more realistic movelist because let's face it: no one in XIII has than many moves.

[Ashspiralingblood]

At least to 4-5 moves plus 1-2 DM  and NM then that be realistic

[MUSOLINI]

um, yamazaki has always had this many moves in kof. check out yamazaki in kof 98, exact same moveset. only thing i changed was the aqxe kick and dust kick, which in 98 have the same motion dp+K, cept different strength of kick is used. instead i changed that to axe kick on dp motion and dust kick to qcb+D since that didnt do anything on its own. its just 98 yamazaki guys, nothing more in terms of amount of moves. a little different in how the moves work (properties of 98 yama and 98yamarb2 version mixed together) but still the same amount of moves. yamazaki has ALWAYS had these tools, and he still wouldnt be anytyhing near kula, raiden, lizzy or k broken. hed just be fair, and probably a good matychup against raiden too.

edit: id like to add that most of his moves use the minimal amount of frames needed for a move. most of yamazakis moves are very easy to animate and take very little in the amount of frames needed per move. also you guys say hes got too many moves?

K:

fb

fb fb

fb upkick

teleport

qcb kick move

qcbx2 kick move that slides.

dp

2 dms

1nm

7 moves for yamazaki is not too much imo. also i would like to point out that ex moves do cost super bar, so im really not getting the overpowered part? whats overpowered about him? theres nothing he can do better than k or kula, any reasons as to why he would be overpowered? 98 yama was never overpowered, he was a 4 star general. not even 5 star (k, kula, lizzy, raiden, shen, kyo to name a few in 13). i think this way hed be like ralph, not overpowered, and takes skill to use. but once you do use him properly, hes strong, still not overpowered.

just for giggles, robert:

fb

dp

command grab

multikick

airkick

flying kick

hes got all these moves, 2 dm's and nm and all those special properties with his ex moves, and he sill isnt overpowered. i think hes another one of those 4start generals, yamazaki would pretty much be the same. both cant do big damage and need to spend meter for good damage. last edit, hope you guys see my point.